Satellites
« on: April 18, 2017, 12:10:43 PM »
So I searched the forums and read various threads on this subject but none really answered the question or gave good justifications. My question is, how can you claim that satellites do not exist when we have satellite TV, GPS, and satellite communications?

First of all, the satellite industry is significant, and exists all across the world in both public and private industry.  Are you suggesting that all of the hundreds of thousands of people who are/were related to the SATCOM world across numerous countries, some of which are enemies, are all in on the conspiracy, and in that time, not one of them ever outed the industry as a myth?  And if it was a lie, and a conspiracy, why intentionally make the market so big for it which would only bring more people into it and therefore make it more likely to be discovered?

Aside from the conspiracy aspect, when I lived in England and we had SkyTV via dish. We lived on a very large hill and our dish was pointed near vertical (within 15 degrees) towards the sky. If we moved the the dish more than 5 degrees in any direction the signal was virtually garbage.

Additionally, anyone who has ever used satellite internet knows that there is latency compared to traditional wired networks. This is because, even though radio waves move at near the speed of light, they still have to travel nearly 45,000 miles (round trip) for the typical GEO satellite. This causes a roughly 500–700 ms from the user to the ISP, or about 1,000–1,400 ms latency for the total round-trip time (RTT) back to the user. Compared to the typical 15-40 ms latency experienced by users of other high-speed Internet services, such as cable or VDSL, a 1 to 1.5 second lag is noticeable. But if satellites aren't real, and the signal doesn't have to travel dozens of thousands of miles, this lag wouldn't exist. And if you want to suggest that someone along the way could be artificially increasing the latency to perpetuate the conspiracy, know anyone on satellite internet could do a trace-route to validate the latency manually

Re: Satellites
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 03:50:15 PM »
Any discussion of satellites needs to show documented details of transmitter locations, essential for receiver alignment.  eg for UK Sky 28.2E above the equator in a geosynchronous orbit.

Re: Satellites
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 04:33:37 PM »
Any discussion of satellites needs to show documented details of transmitter locations, essential for receiver alignment.  eg for UK Sky 28.2E above the equator in a geosynchronous orbit.

Well I haven't lived there for over four years now, so I couldn't supply that. But speaking purely hypothetically, and you can assume that this scenario is entirely fictitious if that helps, is there any flat earth theory that could explain the scenario I described?  I'm not trying to convince other people, I want to know for myself. If you can provide a theory, I would like to hear it. If such a scenario could not co-exist with a flat earth theory, and so the scenario must be fake, I am ok with that response as well, at least then I'll know.

i'm not trying to be scientific, I'm trying to wrap my head around the layers and layers of conspiracy that would have to be present for satellites to not actually exist and hear you guys out on your explanation. The concept is intriguing, but the intrigue seems to die out the more threads I read. I see a trend of when someone asks a difficult question, a single issue with that question is pointed out, no matter how minor, and the entire question is disregarded, even if otherwise valid. And for challenging questions that aren't critiqued, they seem to be outright ignored. Honestly, even an answer of "We don't know, we aren't well funded, we're working on it" would be sufficient, at least it's honest.

At the very least, you have to admit that you are in the absolute tiniest of minorities in this belief.  So, whether fair or not, the onus is more on you to defend and prove your claim rather than just disregarding or ignoring questions that question or challenge things in a forum specifically labeled for debate.  Overall, for a debate forum, there seems to be little of it present that I can find.

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 04:58:07 PM »
They don't need to be well funded to go out and gather some quite simple data.  For example, with a consumer grade camera you can document the locations of these satellites.  Here is a list of such satellites (may not be complete).  You can point a camera at the celestial equator and take a long exposure photo.  The stars will form 'star trails' but there will be a few dots that remain fixed.  Those are geostationary satellites.
For example:



There's actually a cool demonstration in that gif.  You will notice that most of the stationary dots in the frame form a line.  This is the celestial equator.  There are a couple, however, orbiting off that line.  These are satellites orbiting at some inclination to the equator, and therefore are not geostationary, but instead are geosynchronous.  They orbit in sync with a given longitudinal line on the moving surface of the earth, but they move north-to-south over the course of each orbit.  Several examples are visible in this image.  Find Alphasat, in white text on the left and positioned below Eutelsat 25B.  Unlike the conga line of the other satellites, Alphasat is A) not in line, and B) obviously moves upwards (north) across the frame.  Move to the right a little bit and find Eutelsat 16C, black text.  It moves down (south) but not very much, you have to look closely.  Find Astra 2D, black text right of center, about 1/3 in from the right side of the frame.  This one makes a visible shift downward (south) in the frame.  There's another, unidentified satellite that begins near the "0" at the end of the Meteostat 10 label.  It also moves south over the course of the gif.
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Re: Satellites
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 06:04:59 PM »
Thanks for sharing these photos. I also will often see small white objects that look like stars in the night sky that are moving steadily across the background of stars, which it seems would be satellites in non-synchronous orbits.

I found this reference useful:
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OrbitsCatalog/page2.php

Offline Schism

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 07:14:44 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Re: Satellites
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 08:16:47 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.
The calculations for dish alignment are based on a round earth.

Re: Satellites
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 08:25:10 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

And if satellites are real and are up there in space, then maybe some of the pictures they take are real also:

https://www.google.com/search?q=satellite+photos+of+earth&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjb1Jfp6q7TAhUH62MKHUPNC00Q_AUIBygC&biw=1496&bih=864#imgrc=4q4oTm18u64dMM:



Some of the images are so beautiful:

« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 08:35:18 PM by Nirmala »

Offline Schism

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 07:03:03 AM »
The calculations for dish alignment are based on a round earth.

Yes, and they work exactly as engineered.

Re: Satellites
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2017, 11:51:57 AM »
The calculations for dish alignment are based on a round earth.

Yes, and they work exactly as engineered.

All of this is what I'm talking about.  Where's the debate?  The only real debate I've seen on these threads are heavy in science, and I'm not a scientist, nor do I care to research in order to contribute to debates out there that are already over my head.  But I've seen so much talk by flat earth theorists asking how someone rational cannot see the facts in front of them.  Well, here's your chance. For me, satellites are the easiest point of entry to debate, and there are a ton of questions that a layman such as I can ask that no flat earth theorists seem to want to tackle.  My impression thus far is that flat earth theorists are quick to jump to point out any flaw in your question (without actually answering it), get bogged down in math to the point where the original question is completely devoid of meaning, or just ignore really simple questions like these, which, if the Earth was flat, should be easy to answer. But given the lack of any counterpoints or debate, how do you expect a rational person to assume anything other than that it is due to no rational explanation existing, and therefore the Earth is in fact round?

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 01:24:36 PM »
But given the lack of any counterpoints or debate, how do you expect a rational person to assume anything other than that it is due to no rational explanation existing, and therefore the Earth is in fact round?

Bingo!

Quite apart from the question of their very existence, another problem is observing them (for those FE’ers that don’t dispute their reality, just their trajectory). As you no doubt know they are visible in the sky, but only for a few hours before sunrise and after dark. According to what I understand it’s dark at night because the thickness of the atmosphere cloaks the sun (as it doesn’t set below the horizon), but somehow light is still available to light them (and noctilucent clouds) up.
From a RE perspective this is natural as the height of both the satellites and clouds are such that they would catch light from a sun below the horizon.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:27:35 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 04:49:48 AM »
Excuse me for reviving an old thread, but it's an interesting topic.  We know there are satellites up there as we point communications dishes at them (I have first hand experience as a Radio Office on ships in the early days of Inmarsat communications) and they work.  You aligned the antenna according to azimuth and elevation charts, and they worked.  You can find them on the internet, and Tom doesn't need to question their accuracy as I personally have verified that they work.  You can use these charts to calculate the height of the satellite as about 22000 miles, assuming the earth is round.  However, if you assume the earth is flat, you can do some simple trig and you'll find the altitude is much much lower.  So, on the assumption that the existence of satellites and what we can observe from them on earth (flat or round) doesn't prove the matter either way, can you give me an explanation as to what keeps them up ?

Offline FrankF

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 11:15:05 AM »
So, on the assumption that the existence of satellites and what we can observe from them on earth (flat or round) doesn't prove the matter either way, can you give me an explanation as to what keeps them up ?

That's the big question. Globular earth plus gravity gives a beautifully elegant explanation of why satellites stay up. What's the FE zexplanation?

Re: Satellites
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 11:53:52 AM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

Offline Roger G

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 12:25:38 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Re: Satellites
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 12:36:14 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Football field size.  They are lifted with assistance of cranes

Offline Mark_1984

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 01:04:53 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Football field size.  They are lifted with assistance of cranes

And your proof is ?

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 01:08:31 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

Do you have any proof of this claim? There are currently over 2000 satellites in orbit - why can't we see these massive balloons? If they are as low as 40k feet, they would be visible. Also, don't forget that that is right in the neighborhood of where airliners fly. (40K) passengers would surely see these massive balloons. Also, most satellites move very rapidly across the sky. Explain how a balloon can do this.
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Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Satellites
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 01:41:01 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Football field size.  They are lifted with assistance of cranes

OK - so the mass of the ISS is 400 tonnes - and it's 100 meters across - slightly larger than a football field.  If they used hydrogen as their "lift gas" (it's lighter than helium).   At sea level,it takes about 1 cubic meter of hydrogen to lift 1 kg of payload. So the balloon would need to be at least 400,000 cubic meters.   However, at 40,000 feet, where the air is thinner, the balloon needs to be bigger.  At the upper limits of balloon capability - they expand to 700 times their launch volume.  So the balloon that hold up the ISS would be 280 million cubic meters.

If it's spherical (it would have to be) then it would be about a half a kilometer across!

Now - you can use this site: https://spotthestation.nasa.gov  to find a time when the ISS will fly over where you live at a time when you can see it...with your own eyes.   It looks like a bright white dot - but if you get some binoculars - you can actually see the shape of the thing.   It's like a letter 'H'.   That's a 100 meter letter H.  Now - where is the half kilometer balloon?  There should be a circle above the ISS's "H" shape that's four times bigger.

If the thing isn't at orbital altitude - the balloon would look something close to the size of the moon.

So, no - the ISS isn't held up by balloons...that's a guess - and it's a stupid one.

Aside from anything else - you can see satellite zooming across the sky - much MUCH faster than an airliner...how would something with the drag coefficient and fragility of a balloon possibly be able to move that fast?

Buuuuullllll-shit.

Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Re: Satellites
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2017, 01:47:20 PM »
This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Football field size.  They are lifted with assistance of cranes

OK - so the mass of the ISS is 400 tonnes - and it's 100 meters across - slightly larger than a football field.  If they used hydrogen as their "lift gas" (it's lighter than helium).   At sea level,it takes about 1 cubic meter of hydrogen to lift 1 kg of payload. So the balloon would need to be at least 400,000 cubic meters.   However, at 40,000 feet, where the air is thinner, the balloon needs to be bigger.  At the upper limits of balloon capability - they expand to 700 times their launch volume.  So the balloon that hold up the ISS would be 280 million cubic meters.

If it's spherical (it would have to be) then it would be about a half a kilometer across!

Now - you can use this site: https://spotthestation.nasa.gov  to find a time when the ISS will fly over where you live at a time when you can see it...with your own eyes.   It looks like a bright white dot - but if you get some binoculars - you can actually see the shape of the thing.   It's like a letter 'H'.   That's a 100 meter letter H.  Now - where is the half kilometer balloon?  There should be a circle above the ISS's "H" shape that's four times bigger.

If the thing isn't at orbital altitude - the balloon would look something close to the size of the moon.

So, no - the ISS isn't held up by balloons...that's a guess - and it's a stupid one.

Aside from anything else - you can see satellite zooming across the sky - much MUCH faster than an airliner...how would something with the drag coefficient and fragility of a balloon possibly be able to move that fast?

Buuuuullllll-shit.

No just no.  Find something else to do with your time.  You are not very good at this.  Unless this is what you get paid to do is to spew Bs on this site