I didn't say that's how it works bud.
What ideas of Trump's exactly are in the AHCA?
Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...
It actually sounds like China has conquered Korea a number of times but that Korea refuses to accept that that made them a part of China. A semantic difference at best.
“No respectable historian would make such a claim,” said Kyung Moon Hwang, a history professor at the University of Southern California and author of A History of Korea, when I asked him via email to assess Trump’s statement....There are two moments in history that come close. The first was under the Han Dynasty, which in the second century BC set up four “commanderies” in the northern part of Korea. These, however, were more like British colonial rule in India, and not a formal union of Chinese and Korean territory. Still, Chinese researchers have tried to argue that this places Korea within “Chinese local history.”The next moment came in 13th century AD, when the Mongol empire’s global domination happened to include both China and Korea. After a total of seven campaigns to take Korea, the Mongols succeeded, but “even then, the Mongols controlled China more directly than Korea,” said Hwang. Setting aside the controversial question of whether the empire of Mongol invaders counts as “China,” Korea was regardless only a vassal state of the Mongols.If Xi said “something like this,” though, it is unlikely that he said anything as strong as Korea being “part of China.” He could have reasonably said something to the effect of, “Korea was once a part of the same empire as China.” That would apply to the Yuan Dynasty, the one set up by the Mongols and ruled by Kublai Khan. Or he may have said, “China once ruled Korea,” which could maybe work for the Han Dynasty. Trump could have then interpreted either of those statements as meaning Korea was “part” of China—which would be wrong, of course. Or maybe there was a translation issue. We’ll probably never know what Xi actually said.
considering korea as part of china because the mongols conquered them both is asinine
Kyung Moon Hwang
frankly, what's laughable is not that he's wrong.
what's laughable is that he's inserting himself into a cultural-historical argument between two regional rivals who are both vitally important to us national interests. for no gain. it's absurdly amateurish.
Quote from: trekky0623 on April 19, 2017, 08:40:39 PMI didn't say that's how it works bud.I'm glad you retracted that claim. It would have been utter madness for you to pursue it further.Quote from: trekky0623 on April 19, 2017, 08:40:39 PMWhat ideas of Trump's exactly are in the AHCA?Tax-deductible insurance premiums were promised, tax credits were provided (similar enough, except better for the poor), the lack of an immediate cut to Medicaid and a close equivalent of block grants is there, and the remaining promise (increasing price transparency) couldn't have reasonably been part of a budget plan. So far, so good. I'm very surprised that you so conveniently forgot about all these.It seems that your dissatisfaction stems from the assumption that Trump has to fulfil all his healthcare promises with a single bill (that and you didn't pay attention before the election, or didn't want to pay attention). That, while completely unrealistic and unrelated to how American politics has ever worked, is at least somewhat understandable. But not everything has to happen in one shot (or one successful shot). The man still has a year or two before ACA collapses (although these estimates may now be outdated given how quickly insurers are fleeing). By then, he has to either secure support from the Democrats or cave to the pressure from hardline Republicans. Time will tell which one he'll choose and how many of his promises he'll be able to fulfil as a consequence.
[time varies by engine model. See Disassembly time estimate book for details]McMaster would disagree, and it was McMaster who planned it. Coincidentally, McMaster is the reason Trump is suddenly doing well on foreign policy.[/time]
How much of that was in the AHCA?
[/time]Quote[time varies by engine model. See Disassembly time estimate book for details]McMaster would disagree, and it was McMaster who planned it. Coincidentally, McMaster is the reason Trump is suddenly doing well on foreign policy.[/time][time varies by engine model. See Disassembly time estimate book for details]
Wait, which Syria bombing? I'm referring to the one in response to the chemical attack, not the MOAB bunker hit as that was well done.
Now, I don't expect him to do everything. His job is to sell his ideas, not write the bill. But I DO expect him to understand what he's trying to sell. He promised things without having any understanding on what that meant. He talks to state leaders without understanding their culture or nation's history. Yelling at heads of state on the phone is also a fun thing you shouldn't do.
But the one thing he promised, more than anything, more than any specific idea?He had the best people. The best. People you've never heard of.So yes, his team is very important and he surrounded himself with self interest individuals who have absolutely no idea what they're doing in the job they were assigned. So not only has he failed to do his own research (he even bragged about not preparing for debates), he failed to get experts in the field who would do that for him.
In other news, mental healthcare experts decided to ignore the most common and taken-for-granted practices of mental healthcare (nay, dismiss them as "not making a whole lotta sense") and proclaim Trump to be insane and dangerous:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-dangerous-mental-illness-yale-psychiatrist-conference-us-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.htmlThis is definitely gonna end well. No way it could possibly go wrong. No siree!
Quote from: SexWarrior on April 21, 2017, 01:29:23 PMIn other news, mental healthcare experts decided to ignore the most common and taken-for-granted practices of mental healthcare (nay, dismiss them as "not making a whole lotta sense") and proclaim Trump to be insane and dangerous:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-dangerous-mental-illness-yale-psychiatrist-conference-us-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.htmlThis is definitely gonna end well. No way it could possibly go wrong. No siree!They don't even realize how much they're helping Trump in the long run with this nonsense. I'm all for calling him out as a liar when it's warranted, criticizing his choices for Cabinet posts when they deserve criticism, etc. But it's this over-the-top garbage that's diluting the real issues and making it more difficult for the layman to take Trump's critics seriously.
North Korea is threatening nuclear war.Congress is trying to get another Health Care bill through.Protests continue in America.The Taliban kill 100 Afghan troops.Trump: I'm gonna have a Rally to mark my 100 days in officer! YEAH!http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/89ae8247abe8493fae24405546e9a1aa/Article_2017-04-22-US--Trump-Rally/id-a121c9abad2c4361964e18965129c89a
Because he is so fragile nowadays that he can't stand to be roasted.
Gary, have you tried at least brushing up on the history of China before you wrote this? Like, seriously, this is high school level world history.
It's a great thing that no one considers the Yuan dynasty's invasion of Korea to be "because the Mongols conquered them", then. But, of course, even if you were right (you're not), this would be a moot point since the vassal status carried over when the Ming took over. There was also the Tang dynasty before that... and Qing after that... oh well, I bet they're all just made up, nothing to worry about there.
The Mongolian Yuan dynasty was quite distinct from its predecessors......The T'ai-ho code was to a large extent based on the T'ang code and survived the fall of Chin in 1234, for even after the Mongolian conquest of northern China, it was still applied to the Chinese population. It was abrogated only in 1271 after the Mongolian regime had adopted the dynastic name of Yuan....Southern China, by contrast, was invaded and conquered by a Mongolian Yuan regime already firmly rooted in China and inured to Chinese ways. Khubilai had every reason to attempt to take southern China intact as far as possible and with its productive base undamaged, but here too populations declined seriously over the thirteenth century, though not to the catastrophic levels in the former Chin territories....Khubilai was similarly successful in pacifying Korea. In 1258, his brother Mongke had dispatched an expedition to quell disturbances and to bring Korea under Mongol control.
In 1392 political events in Korea, where trouble had been brewing for several years, came to a head. Yi Song-gye unseated the Koryo ruler, Wang Yao, and established the Yi dynasty, which ruled Korea until 1910. With the founding of the Yi, Korean-Chinese relations entered a period of relative stability/
The military ambitions of T'ai-tsung began T'ang expansion into central Asia, and renewed attempts to reconquer the Han colonies in Manchuria and Korea. His successorKao-tsung continued with these conquests, and by the 670s T'ang protectorates had been established up to the borders of Persia, the Chinese had occupied the Tarim and Zungharia, and destroyed Koguryo in Korea, although attempts to incorporate it into the empire failed....In Korea the Chinese met with more powerful resistance. Unlike northern Vietnam, where Chinese dominance had continued at some level since Han times, northern Korea and southern Manchuria were controlled by the powerful and well-organized state of Koguryo. This kingdom put up such a fierce resistance to Sui attempts to reconquer the former Han territories that the Sui destroyed its dynasty in the attempt. The T'ang, under Kao-tsung, finally succeeded in conquering Koguryo, and for a few years incorporated most of Korea under a Chinese protectorate. But in the face of continued resistance their position proved untenable. Their withdrawal led to the unification of all Korea, for the first time, under the kingdom of Silla, while the former Koguryo territories in Manchuria and the adjacent coastal region became the nucleus of another powerful state, Parhae (Po-hai).
Breaking news: a left-wing medium managed to find a left-wing Korean-American who's willing to confirm the historical revisionism of the South Korean government, or who at the very least is willing to be a pedant about the difference between being a vassal state and a territory with some autonomy. I wonder how seriously you'd take this if it was a pro-Putin Russian historian making false claims about Russian ownership of Crimea. (Hint: I suspect not very seriously)
What makes you think that there's no gain to it? And what makes you think that he's inserting himself into an argument? So far, the only angry responses to his claim seem to have come from sensationalist American media.Where's all the outrage from the regional rivals? Judging by the Bloomberg link you gave us (you've actually read that, right?), all that happened was that their presidential candidates have decided to turn it into a dick-measuring contest among themselves, which is both predictable and normal.Also, I thought China was our ally??????
to me it's like you're saying that belgum was once part of france because germany conquered them both [...] i mean if we want to be super vague about what it means to be part of a nation, then sure, i guess.
or that puetro rico [...] [is] part of the united states
Puerto Rico [...] is an unincorporated territory of the United States located in the northeast Caribbean Sea.
"that person is just an incompetent biased liar," and "yeah but if we were talking about something different then you would make a different argument," are not things i can argue against.
also being a tributary is absolutely not the same thing as being incorporated into an empire.
i feel like i've mentioned before that i think signals matter in foreign policy. for example, if the north korean regime collapses, china's behavior may be dictated by the extent to which it believes trump supports their "historical claim" to north korean territory. or worse, that south korea believes the same thing.
Quote from: Rama Set on April 23, 2017, 03:47:50 PMBecause he is so fragile nowadays that he can't stand to be roasted.Trump's rallys are actually televised speeches to the american public to communicate his progress and intentions. That seems to me to be a lot more valuable, and a better use of his time, than attending some dinner party.