Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« on: June 06, 2016, 02:34:19 AM »
I was recently directed to the bi-polar model of the flat earth. This model has a distinct advantage over the traditional ice-wall model: it can provide a somewhat plausible explanation of the south celestial pole. However, it seems to retain some of the problems of the traditional model: sunsets, the size of the sun/moon, the path of the sun/moon. It also introduces new problems: flight times over the pacific ocean, distortion of certain continental shapes.

My main question is this: what is the path of the sun in the bi-polar model?

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Offline Venus

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 03:02:07 AM »
I was recently directed to the bi-polar model of the flat earth. This model has a distinct advantage over the traditional ice-wall model: it can provide a somewhat plausible explanation of the south celestial pole. However, it seems to retain some of the problems of the traditional model: sunsets, the size of the sun/moon, the path of the sun/moon. It also introduces new problems: flight times over the pacific ocean, distortion of certain continental shapes.

My main question is this: what is the path of the sun in the bi-polar model?

Sorry this is not an answer ... but ... What is it with the maps created by FE'ers ?? Why don't they don't mind the fact that major continents are totally distorted? if it is a map of a FLAT earth it should show Australia as it really is ... it was first mapped in 1810 when Mathew Flinders circumnavigated the continent surely it shouldn't be too hard to show it as it really is on a FLAT earth map!!
Also Africa is larger than China, Canada and USA combined... why does it look so small on the bipolar map?

If the earth is really flat then a flat earth map should be the easiest thing to produce... :-)
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 03:38:29 AM »
In the Bi-Polar model the sun rotates around the Northern Hemiplane for 6 months out of the year and then shifts over to rotate around the Southern Hemiplane for 6 months. It gradually moves between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. This is what creates the seasons - long summer days and short winter days in the North, and vice versa for the South.

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 03:45:55 AM »
In the Bi-Polar model the sun rotates around the Northern Hemiplane for 6 months out of the year and then shifts over to rotate around the Southern Hemiplane for 6 months. It gradually moves between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. This is what creates the seasons - long summer days and short winter days in the North, and vice versa for the South.

What days of the year does this shift happen? Why don't we see a sudden shift in the path of the sun through the sky?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 04:11:48 AM »
In the Bi-Polar model the sun rotates around the Northern Hemiplane for 6 months out of the year and then shifts over to rotate around the Southern Hemiplane for 6 months. It gradually moves between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. This is what creates the seasons - long summer days and short winter days in the North, and vice versa for the South.

What days of the year does this shift happen? Why don't we see a sudden shift in the path of the sun through the sky?

The shifts happen twice a year around March 20 and September 23 (days which mark the first day of Spring and the first day of Fall). If you live at an appropriate latitude you can see it gradually move between the Tropic of Cancer towards the North Pole and then towards the Tropic of Capricorn towards the South Pole.

Here it is on a shift day between the two hemiplanes, on the first day of Spring:

« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 04:20:44 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 04:52:27 AM »
The shifts happen twice a year around March 20 and September 23 (days which mark the first day of Spring and the first day of Fall). If you live at an appropriate latitude you can see it gradually move between the Tropic of Cancer towards the North Pole and then towards the Tropic of Capricorn towards the South Pole.

I am aware of this phenomenon. The key word here is "gradually". The sun moves gradually between the north and south. This is a natural result of the tilt and orbit of the globe earth.

However, if the sun actually changed the point around which it orbits, there should be a very distinct change in direction between one day and the next. We should be able to observe this "fork in the road" somewhere on earth.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 11:06:05 AM »
In the Bi-Polar model the sun rotates around the Northern Hemiplane for 6 months out of the year and then shifts over to rotate around the Southern Hemiplane for 6 months. It gradually moves between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. This is what creates the seasons - long summer days and short winter days in the North, and vice versa for the South.
Surely the Bipolar Map is not being proposed as a feasible map of the earth?

Bipolar Flat Earth map
Even a cursory glance would show that it is impossible to circumnagivate the earth along the equator from say Ecuador to Borneo.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 03:08:25 AM »
Under the bi-polar model the biggest forks are out in the middle of the ocean. However, the landmasses near the equator do see forks in the road.

Consider the following images. If the earth is a globe and the stars are light years away and very distant, how is it that the stars can be physically seen to move away from each other over the course of the night? They seem to come closer together then spread away. The stars in the upper left are rotating one way and the stars in the lower right are rotating the other. The stars are moving in relation to each other! This is impossible if the earth is a globe.

A rotating globe should not cause the stars to physically separate from each other in the sky, and these stars would need to be moving light years through space if they were to actually travel this route. It is a proof that the earth is not a globe.



« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 03:20:59 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 03:50:52 AM »
I don't see what you are talking about. Where are the stars moving closer to one another?  Why wouldn't this be possible if the Earth were rotating?  We are talking about apparent motion here; all sorts of optical effects are possible.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 03:56:37 AM »
Under the bi-polar model the biggest forks are out in the middle of the ocean. However, the landmasses near the equator do see forks in the road.

And have conveniently never been witnessed...

Quote
Consider the following images. If the earth is a globe and the stars are light years away and very distant, how is it that the stars can be physically seen to move away from each other over the course of the night? They seem to come closer together then spread away.

They don't. This is a wide angle photo. It is a projection of a spherical field of view onto a flat image. It looks like this for the same reason that a map of the globe can't be perfectly drawn on a flat map without distortions. If you actually look at the stars at night in person, they always stay the same distance away from each other.

Quote
The stars in the upper left are rotating one way and the stars in the lower right are rotating the other. The stars are moving in relation to each other! This is impossible if the earth is a globe.

Huh? All stars rotate from east to west, just like the sun. Yes, the stars in the South rotate clockwise, and the stars in the North rotate counterclockwise, but that's only because you have to be facing in the opposite direction to view the stars in the North or South. How in the world do YOU expect the stars to move if the earth is a globe? I am curious.

If you want a good visualization for how the stars rotate around a globe, I recommend downloading Stellarium.

1. Fast forward the simulation until you can see the stars moving.
2. Click the  "equitorial grid" button to better visualize where the celestial poles are.
3. Move the "location" from various points in the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere. Notice how the celestial poles sink and rise with respect to the horizon.
4. Click the "landscape" button to see what it would look like if you could see through the earth.
5. Waste a bunch of time playing around with the various settings, because it's an awesome piece of software.

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 04:06:58 AM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2016, 11:19:47 PM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

Try to explain the fact that for a day (or even two) either side of the equinoxes, both poles have 24-hour daylight.
Of course TFES does have the usual explanation - denies it happens at all, and asks have you BEEN in both places (at once of course) and PROVED it!
No, I haven't, and don't intend to try.

BTW  ::) Looked at the shape of countries on the BiPolar map?  ::)

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Offline Venus

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 12:16:18 AM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

Try to explain the fact that for a day (or even two) either side of the equinoxes, both poles have 24-hour daylight.
Of course TFES does have the usual explanation - denies it happens at all, and asks have you BEEN in both places (at once of course) and PROVED it!
No, I haven't, and don't intend to try.

BTW  ::) Looked at the shape of countries on the BiPolar map?  ::)

I'm trying to figure out if that is New Zealand shown below Antarctica ??
If so then this map is totally wrong, because the actual distance from Sydney to Auckland is 2155km, whereas the distance from Melbourne to Auckland is 2624km.
On the bipolar map Melbourne would be closer to Auckland ... not further away.
Oh and then there's the size of Africa (far too small), shape of Australia, shape of Canada and Alaska, shape of the southern part of South America ... etc etc etc !!

"Hey Dad, there's a guy selling a bipolar map of the flat earth"
"How much does he want for it?"
"Ten bucks"
"He's dreamin' !!"
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 10:46:04 AM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

Try to explain the fact that for a day (or even two) either side of the equinoxes, both poles have 24-hour daylight.
Of course TFES does have the usual explanation - denies it happens at all, and asks have you BEEN in both places (at once of course) and PROVED it!
No, I haven't, and don't intend to try.

BTW  ::) Looked at the shape of countries on the BiPolar map?  ::)

I'm trying to figure out if that is New Zealand shown below Antarctica ??
If so then this map is totally wrong, because the actual distance from Sydney to Auckland is 2155km, whereas the distance from Melbourne to Auckland is 2624km.
On the bipolar map Melbourne would be closer to Auckland ... not further away.
Oh and then there's the size of Africa (far too small), shape of Australia, shape of Canada and Alaska, shape of the southern part of South America ... etc etc etc !!

"Hey Dad, there's a guy selling a bipolar map of the flat earth"
"How much does he want for it?"
"Ten bucks"
"He's dreamin' !!"
But if a flat earth map could be made that had all the continents to scale and the correct distances from each other it would go "straight to the Pool Room"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 07:01:52 PM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

You do know that there are places near the polar circle where the sun can set and then not return for months, right?

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 10:39:30 PM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

You do know that there are places near the polar circle where the sun can set and then not return for months, right?

Yes, but it doesn't happen on the equinox. The sun is visible every day around the equinox in Alaska. Try again.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 06:31:31 PM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

You do know that there are places near the polar circle where the sun can set and then not return for months, right?

Yes, but it doesn't happen on the equinox. The sun is visible every day around the equinox in Alaska. Try again.

When the sun is south of the equator Alaska and the Arctic circle will only have a few hours of daylight, or none at all.

Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2016, 11:43:04 PM »
Another problem with the bipolar model, and the figure 8 path of the sun:

Let's look at Alaska during the Spring Equinox, when the sun supposedly switches from circling the North pole to the South pole.

Day before equinox: The sun is rotating around the North pole. In Alaska, the sun will supposedly set somewhere to the West, curving around to the North.

Day after the equinox: The sun turns South instead of North, and never comes near Alaska.

How in the world has this never been noticed by anyone before?? Am I picturing it wrong? Perhaps you can draw the path of the sun before and after the equinox on the bipolar map so that I can understand better?

You do know that there are places near the polar circle where the sun can set and then not return for months, right?

Yes, but it doesn't happen on the equinox. The sun is visible every day around the equinox in Alaska. Try again.

When the sun is south of the equator Alaska and the Arctic circle will only have a few hours of daylight, or none at all.

Around the equinoxes (March 20, September 23), there is a solid 12 hours of daylight in Alaska.

If the sun suddenly changed paths on that day, it would be very noticeable. Not only to Alaska, but also anywhere on the corners of your bipolar map: Japan, Northeast Russia, Australia, South America. One day the sun would pass relatively close by, the next day it would be on the other side of the world.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 04:40:14 AM »
The bi-polar 'map' creates so many problems, I can't even remember what problem(s) it was supposed to solve.
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Re: Path of the Sun in the Bi-polar Model of the Earth.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2016, 04:45:13 AM »
The bi-polar 'map' creates so many problems, I can't even remember what problem(s) it was supposed to solve.

It explains the existence of the South celestial pole. That's about it though.