Looking at different planets...
« on: May 25, 2017, 11:08:43 PM »
I think this can be self proven. Look through telescope, and focus it on a certain planet. Look at it another day, and you can see it has rotated, just like a sphere. This is because of the fact that all mass has gravity, proven by Newton's law of universal gravitation. Therefore, can we not deduce that Earth would also be round?

Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 11:11:40 PM »
Also a little more. What about the fact that there are different constellations in different parts of the planet at the same time? Yes I read a thread about some bs like electromagnetic acceleration, which has no mathematical proof whatsoever, so that should not be taken into consideration.

Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 11:17:37 PM »
The shadow of the earth, when cast on the moon during a lunar eclipse, is round. This was known in ancient times. But note that lunar eclipses do not always happen when the moon is in the same position in the sky. If the earth were flat, the earth’s shadow would not have the same shape when the moon is directly overhead as it would when the moon is closer to the horizon. Since it is possible to observe multiple full and partial lunar eclipses during an average lifetime, this would not have been lost on any observant person, even in the distant past (note that this is assuming one model of a flat earth, the one where the sun and moon cross under the earth as they travel back to the east). Also, if the sun and moon were orbiting overhead, as in some recent flat earth models, then how could the earth ever get in between them to cast a shadow in the first place?

The moon’s phases are also proof that it’s orbiting a global earth. In real life, at any given part of the moon’s cycle, all people on earth see the same phase, and the moon is always about the same size. This makes sense if it were orbiting the globe from a distance far greater than the earth’s diameter. If it and the sun were always orbiting above a flat earth, as per a recent flat earth scenario, then they would both change size drastically, and people in different areas would see different moon phases. Someone looking toward the moon would be presented with a different view than someone looking at it from the other end of the earth.

Instead, a person with a telescope can actually watch the shadow creep across the moon’s surface and someone on the other side of the earth can then pick up watching the shadow creep when the moon drops below the horizon of the first person. There are human eyeballs all over this globe of ours, and the progress of the moon (and sun) represents a continuum.

Also, by watching the shadows creep across the craters and plains of the moon, it is clear that the moon is a sphere. Also, the crescent and gibbous phases, which have curved boundaries, are possibly only on a spherical moon, not a disk.

And we can watch sunspots migrate across the face of the sun and they behave as if they are moving across a spherical surface. There is also the phenomenon of limb darkening, where the sun (and other stars) appear darker and redder towards the outside, which proves a spherical sun, not a flat disk. We have overwhelming evidence that the other bodies in the solar system are spherical. And we have overwhelming evidence that the earth is also a sphere.

Note also, if the moon and sun were flat disks, then their apparent shape would become more elliptical as they moved lower in the sky. The fact that a full moon and sun always look circular from any angle shows that they are spheres, not disks.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 02:50:44 AM »
I guess you haven't read that bit in the Wiki.  FE proponents (mostly) claim that the moon is NOT illuminated by the sun (which casts it's light like a flashlight beam down onto the surface of the Earth).   Hence the moon is self-illuminated and a shadow could not be cast upon it.

The claim is that there is a THIRD body up there - along with the sun and moon - which some call "The Shadow Object" and others call "The Antimoon".   This small, dark disk sometimes gets between the viewer and either the sun or the moon and blocks out the light from it.

Since the antimoon is circular (unsure whether it's a disk or a sphere) - it blocks a circular chunk of light out of the sun or moon.

Because the sun and moon are both ABOVE the Earth plane at all times, there is no possibility of the Earth casting "flat" shadows on either of them.

Yeah - this doesn't make a whole lot of sense - but the amount of math you need to disprove it is hard to follow and makes a terrible debate point.   The motion of the antimoon would be an interesting thing to analyse - but details of the motion of sun, moon and antimoon are hard to nail down because the FE proponents don't get into that kind of detail.  (Wisely, if they don't want to be instantly debunked!)

The idea that planets, stars, sun and moon can be round - yet the earth be flat - doesn't really convince FE'ers because they don't exactly (necessarily, universally) agree that gravity even exists at all.   Those objects can be round without needing gravity - they are claimed to be pretty small (sun and moon are ~30 miles across) - so gravity wouldn't have any effect on their shape anyway.   They might be round just because God liked them that way.

Absent a god - the way that the Earth/firmament/etc would have formed is not investigated at all in FE theory...so "It was always there" or "God did it" are the only explanations you're gonna get.


Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 05:10:51 PM »
I think this can be self proven. Look through telescope, and focus it on a certain planet. Look at it another day, and you can see it has rotated, just like a sphere. This is because of the fact that all mass has gravity, proven by Newton's law of universal gravitation. Therefore, can we not deduce that Earth would also be round?
In a different discussion thread, too long ago for me to remember which one it was, the answer I was given to this was that the planets are a different thing than the earth, which means that the nature of those other things tells us nothing about the nature of the earth.  That is a valid objection to your premise.  By analogy: suppose you are driving along and begin to notice that every vehicle on the road with you, as far as the eye can see, is a red pickup truck.  Does it follow that YOUR vehicle must also be a red pickup truck?  Another one: Six of the seven pieces in your dining room set are chairs.  Does it follow that the piece those chairs surround is also a chair?

I agree with you that the earth is round, but you can't prove it based merely on the observed sphericity of Mars and Jupiter (for example)

Don't forget who your disputants are: they claim that the sun is a tiny (~30 miles across) and nearby (~3000 miles away) object, which necessitates planets that are even smaller still.  Their planets are not the enormous and majestic Saturn and Jupiter that captured our imagination when Voyagers I and II visited; they are tiny little whatsits in the sky. 

It's actually kind of sad, thinking about the wonders they miss out on.
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Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2018, 10:25:26 AM »
I think this can be self proven. Look through telescope, and focus it on a certain planet. Look at it another day, and you can see it has rotated, just like a sphere. This is because of the fact that all mass has gravity, proven by Newton's law of universal gravitation. Therefore, can we not deduce that Earth would also be round?
They published these photo's recently. Where is the telescope that took these picture? They are so beautiful. They say it spacecraft, but that true? I did not know these clear pictures possible from earth.





It indeed has rotated

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Looking at different planets...
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 12:02:43 PM »
Treep,

The pictures will be described as fake, false, a conspiracy or lies by the establishment. Of course they cant be taken from a spacecraft, as there are none up there.

They are of Jupiter, most likely taken from a spacecraft called Juno . (But lets keep this little secret to ourselves eh?)

What does interest me, which i have yet to see an answer to, is if all the stars are at the same distance away from the earth as the sun and moon, and are fixed, why do the planets move in relation to them? Venus, mars, Saturn and Jupiter are all easily visible with the naked eye, and with a fair telescope some of Jupiter’s moons, and Saturn’s rings are visible.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.