Offline Flatout

  • *
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 02:42:03 AM »
Quote
So a PhD in astronomy doesn't give a person any credibility in the realms of the nature of our universe?

Well, yes, Shaq is basically saying that those astronomers are educated by merely accepting authority and answering correctly on their tests that the earth is round. Shaq is very qualified to say that.

Tom, I don't think you understand what it takes to get a PhD.  It's not about passing tests.  My friend is on year 6 of his full time PhD work.  He has had to do new research in his field that makes a significant new contribution, teach undergraduate classes, write a full dissertation on his research, undergo questioning and verbal defense of his research findings by panels of other experts in the field.  The work has to be something that is publishable in the science community and contains findings that expand the knowledge of the science field.   
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 02:44:21 AM by Flatout »

Offline Flatout

  • *
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 02:47:51 AM »
I just read about Shaquille's capstone project.  He did a video presentation that included interviews with 4 CEO s about the role of humor in leadership.  The video has never been published. That is his doctoral contribution to his field.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 02:50:16 AM »
Tom, I don't think you understand what it takes to get a PhD.  It's not about passing tests.  My friend is on year 6 of his full time PhD work.  He has had to do new research in his field that makes a significant new contribution, teach undergraduate classes, write a full dissertation on his research, undergo questioning and verbal defense of his research findings by panels of other experts in the field.  The work has to be something that is publishable in the science community and contains findings that expand the knowledge of the science field.

The scientific community is very biased. Nothing about Zodiac signs is really publishable in the scientific community, for example, because of inherent bias, no matter how accurate the personality traits may be.

On top of that, there is not really any experimentation in Astronomy. It is an observing science. Astronomers aren't making experiments on dark matter in distant galaxies before writing papers about it. The entire field is almost completely without experimentation on the universe.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:15:52 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Boots

  • *
  • Posts: 252
  • ---- Cogito, ergo sum. ---- -Descartes
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 02:56:45 AM »
Quote
So a PhD in astronomy doesn't give a person any credibility in the realms of the nature of our universe?

Well, yes, they are not credible because Shaq is saying that their education is not credible. Shaq is basically saying that those astronomers are educated by merely accepting authority and answering correctly on their tests that the earth is round. Shaq is very qualified to say that, and the hosts of that podcast show are not qualified enough to laugh at him.

If you surveyed a group of people who have the same credentials as Shaq and asked them whether they believed the earth was flat or globular what do you think the results would be? If you accept Shaq's opinion based on his qualifications, on what basis do you reject the opposing opinion of those who have the same qualifications.
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 02:58:56 AM »
I just read about Shaquille's capstone project.  He did a video presentation that included interviews with 4 CEO s about the role of humor in leadership.  The video has never been published. That is his doctoral contribution to his field.
'

Actually the title is "How Leaders Utilize Humor or Aggression in Leadership Styles." Both humor and aggression can be of supreme importance in succeeding in business and leadership roles. I don't see how that is an inappropriate subject to study. That is how businessmen become billionaires, and how politicians become presidents.

Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 02:59:57 AM »
do you really not see the irony in using an appeal to authority to justify your acceptance of the premise that one should not accept appeals to authority to justify the acceptance of a premise?
Go FLIP yourself in a MUTHAFLIPPIN SACK

Offline Flatout

  • *
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 03:05:33 AM »
Alright, Tom.

Eat your heart out on his vast studies in the field of education:

Bachelor Arts Degree in General Studies

MBA in Business Administration

Doctorate in the field of Human Resources

Title of the Doctorate capstone project:  The Duality of  Humor and Agression in Leadership Styles

You misunderstand what a Ed. D degree is.  His field of study is not education. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:08:01 AM by Flatout »

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 03:09:36 AM »
If you surveyed a group of people who have the same credentials as Shaq and asked them whether they believed the earth was flat or globular what do you think the results would be? If you accept Shaq's opinion based on his qualifications, on what basis do you reject the opposing opinion of those who have the same qualifications.

Too many what-ifs. Maybe if they talked to Shaq they would become Flat Earthers too.

do you really not see the irony in using an appeal to authority to justify your acceptance of the premise that one should not accept appeals to authority to justify the acceptance of a premise?

Shaq is a doctor which studied the workings of that authority in the educational system, so that makes him more credible than the dupes it produced.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2017, 03:11:35 AM »
Alright, Tom.

Eat your heart out on his vast studies in the field of education:

Bachelor Arts Degree in General Studies

MBA in Business Administration

Doctorate in the field of Human Resources

Title of the Doctorate capstone project:  The Duality of  Humor and Agression in Leadership Styles

You misunderstand what a Ed. D degree is.  His field of study is not education.

No, his Ed.D. degree is a degree in education with a specialty in human resources.

The capstone project is standard in that field: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-05-09/news/fl-dr-shaq-mayocol-b051012-20120509_1_doctoral-degree-education-doctorates-nba-star-shaquille-o-neal

Quote
Barry spokesman Michael Laderman said O'Neal didn't get any special treatment and the oral presentations, known as Capstone Projects, are standard for doctorates in education, including at Ivy League schools.

O'Neal's spokesman described it as "a more practical doctorate, as opposed to a research-based doctorate like a Ph.D."

The criticism that he did not do a dissertation is stupid. It's not a research-based doctorate.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:20:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2017, 03:18:10 AM »
so just to be clear, some guy you've never met goes on a podcast and talks about how the education system trains people to merely accept things as true merely because a phd said it is so, and you believe him because he has a phd and says it is so.

i bet it's just a coincidence that everything he said was stuff you already believe.  lol suddenly having a phd is the bright-line for credibility.  i mean, as you said yourself, none of us have phds in education, so we aren't credible.
Go FLIP yourself in a MUTHAFLIPPIN SACK

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2017, 03:21:48 AM »
so just to be clear, some guy you've never met goes on a podcast and talks about how the education system trains people to merely accept things as true merely because a phd said it is so, and you believe him because he has a phd and says it is so.

i bet it's just a coincidence that everything he said was stuff you already believe.  lol suddenly having a phd is the bright-line for credibility.  i mean, as you said yourself, none of us have phds in education, so we aren't credible.

He has the doctorate in that field, which makes him supremely more qualified to hold that position than for you to laugh at him about it.

Offline Flatout

  • *
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2017, 03:22:46 AM »
Alright, Tom.

Eat your heart out on his vast studies in the field of education:

Bachelor Arts Degree in General Studies

MBA in Business Administration

Doctorate in the field of Human Resources

Title of the Doctorate capstone project:  The Duality of  Humor and Agression in Leadership Styles

You misunderstand what a Ed. D degree is.  His field of study is not education.

No, the degree is in education with a specialty in human resources.
Tom, if the guy has incredible credentials to understand the brainwashing of education in America then why was his BA in general studies, his MBA in Business Administration, and Ed. D in Human Resources?   His doctoral studies weren't even about it.  Yet, to you he is an expert in understanding the fallacies of the educational system.  In reality, he is just regurgitating previously stated flat earth claims about education and proving himself a sheep.    If he had done 4 years of research about the educational system of America then he might have some competence.  In this end it's about using humor in leadership.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:29:00 AM by Flatout »

*

Offline Boots

  • *
  • Posts: 252
  • ---- Cogito, ergo sum. ---- -Descartes
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2017, 03:25:12 AM »
If Shaq came out tomorrow and said it was just a joke and he actually believed the earth was a globe I'm sure you would become a GE since he has the qualifications to know! LOL
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2017, 03:28:52 AM »
He has the doctorate in that field, which makes him supremely more qualified to hold that position than for you to laugh at him about it.

why?

i'm not laughing at shaq.  although i admit i do find it puzzling that out of all the phds out there doing research in education (unlike shaq), he's the only one to have noticed these fundamental flaws in education.  i guess all the other phds got brainwashed.  not shaq, though!

i'm only perplexed by your position that we should believe shaq because he has a phd.
Go FLIP yourself in a MUTHAFLIPPIN SACK

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2017, 03:43:47 AM »
Tom, if the guy has incredible credentials to understand the brainwashing of education in America why was his BA in general studies, his MBA in Business Administration, and Ed. D in Human Resources.  His doctoral studies weren't even about it.  Yet, to you he is an expert in understanding the fallacies of the educational system.  In reality, he is just regurgitation previously stated flat earth claims about education and proving himself a sheep.

Apparently you have NO idea how it works. Any Ed.D with BA and MA degrees in different fields is just as qualified as an Ed.D with both Ed.BA and Ed.MA degrees. Those people with different degrees would need to take extra courses to satisfy the prerequisite requirements for the Ed.D degree program.

Having his undergraduate degree as general studies simply means that he knows a little bit about everything, and is not limited in his knowledge base. A bachelors degree is more of a general knowledge degree anyway, so he made the right choice, and it makes him more well rounded.

His degree is a doctorate in education with a specialty in human resources. It is not a degree in human resources. It says that everywhere on a million websites. You are just making things up.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:57:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2017, 03:48:02 AM »
He has the doctorate in that field, which makes him supremely more qualified to hold that position than for you to laugh at him about it.

why?

i'm not laughing at shaq.  although i admit i do find it puzzling that out of all the phds out there doing research in education (unlike shaq), he's the only one to have noticed these fundamental flaws in education.  i guess all the other phds got brainwashed.  not shaq, though!

i'm only perplexed by your position that we should believe shaq because he has a phd.

There are many professional doctorates that do not require dissertations (MD, DO, DC, JD, DDS, etc.). I don't know what criticism you have with Shaq not doing a dissertation. As his spokesman said, the capstone is the standard practice at many ivy leagues.

Is an MD a less significant degree because there was no dissertation? No. There are different kinds of doctorates, and they all require a lot of hard work. The people criticizing Shaq for not doing a dissertation are just very ignorant of education.

I said that Shaq is a credible source on matters of education because he studied that subject enough to get a doctorate. That is pretty indisputable.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:57:06 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 2535
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2017, 04:00:18 AM »
so just to be clear, some guy you've never met goes on a podcast and talks about how the education system trains people to merely accept things as true merely because a phd said it is so, and you believe him because he has a phd and says it is so.

i bet it's just a coincidence that everything he said was stuff you already believe.  lol suddenly having a phd is the bright-line for credibility.  i mean, as you said yourself, none of us have phds in education, so we aren't credible.

He has the doctorate in that field, which makes him supremely more qualified to hold that position than for you to laugh at him about it.

Apparently not everyone thinks that an Ed. D. isn't as big a deal as you might think.
Barbara K. Townsend, Professor of Higher Education and Associate Dean for Research and Development at the University of Missouri at Columbia, suggests the doctorate of education is most frequently sought for vanity purposes and to improve one's status, citing a 2000 survey of California school superintendents in which they identify the greatest value of the Ed. D. as being its "symbolic value (credibility and respects a basis for leadership)," further adding that there is scant research or evidence to suggest that possession of a doctorate in education improves one's ability to be an effective administrator.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2017, 04:07:12 AM »
Apparently not everyone thinks that an Ed. D. isn't as big a deal as you might think.
Barbara K. Townsend, Professor of Higher Education and Associate Dean for Research and Development at the University of Missouri at Columbia, suggests the doctorate of education is most frequently sought for vanity purposes and to improve one's status, citing a 2000 survey of California school superintendents in which they identify the greatest value of the Ed. D. as being its "symbolic value (credibility and respects a basis for leadership)," further adding that there is scant research or evidence to suggest that possession of a doctorate in education improves one's ability to be an effective administrator.

Why would the study of education make you a better administrator? That requires a lot more than merely knowing all about education. If your goal is to become a good leader and you are getting a degree with the word education in it just because you are running an education facility, then yes, you are getting it for mostly vain purposes.

You are probably better off getting both a business degree and an education degree like Shaq did.

Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2017, 04:14:22 AM »
There are many professional doctorates that do not require dissertations (MD, DO, DC, JD, DDS, etc.). I don't know what criticism you have with Shaq not doing a dissertation. As his spokesman said, the capstone is the standard practice at many ivy leagues.

Is an MD a less significant degree because there was no dissertation? No. There are different kinds of doctorates, and they all require a lot of hard work. The people criticizing Shaq for not doing a dissertation are just very ignorant of how other fields work.

I said that Shaq is a credible source on matters of education because he studied that subject enough to get a doctorate. That's pretty indisputable.

i am not denying that shaq is a credible source of information on the topic of education, and i'm not criticizing his degree.

i'm criticizing you for championing as fact the words of a complete stranger merely because he has a phd.  it's confusing given that the position you are championing is "the education system is bad because it operates entirely on appeals to authority."

tbh i'm mostly just poking fun at you for suddenly asserting an appeal to authority when the speaker says something you already agreed with.  your worldview is in many ways fundamentally based on a resistance to appeals to authority (not meant as a criticism); you can't start asserting it now.
Go FLIP yourself in a MUTHAFLIPPIN SACK

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2009
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Shaquille O'Neil believes that the earth is flat
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2017, 04:42:04 AM »
There are many professional doctorates that do not require dissertations (MD, DO, DC, JD, DDS, etc.). I don't know what criticism you have with Shaq not doing a dissertation. As his spokesman said, the capstone is the standard practice at many ivy leagues.

Is an MD a less significant degree because there was no dissertation? No. There are different kinds of doctorates, and they all require a lot of hard work. The people criticizing Shaq for not doing a dissertation are just very ignorant of how other fields work.

I said that Shaq is a credible source on matters of education because he studied that subject enough to get a doctorate. That's pretty indisputable.

i am not denying that shaq is a credible source of information on the topic of education, and i'm not criticizing his degree.

i'm criticizing you for championing as fact the words of a complete stranger merely because he has a phd.  it's confusing given that the position you are championing is "the education system is bad because it operates entirely on appeals to authority."

tbh i'm mostly just poking fun at you for suddenly asserting an appeal to authority when the speaker says something you already agreed with.  your worldview is in many ways fundamentally based on a resistance to appeals to authority (not meant as a criticism); you can't start asserting it now.

I never said that ALL appeals to authority are bad. Its more like blind appeals to an authority are bad. An appeal to a credible authority is good!

It is a perfectly legitimate argument to point to NASA pictures as proof that the earth is round. It is also perfectly legitimate for us to discredit that source of authority by pointing out the questionable and sketchy pictures NASA has produced.

In order to discredit Shaq as a source of authority you would need to show that he cheated in his classes or something, just like we regularly show that NASA is cheating in its efforts.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 05:14:13 AM by Tom Bishop »