3 Simple Questions
« on: March 01, 2017, 10:52:45 PM »
Hello, I am new around this forum and I am not completely sold on any sort of "Flat Earth Theroy". I would need these three questions answered before I would give any credibility to this theory.

1. How do we have night and day on the flat earth?

2. How do we have seasons on the flat earth?

3. How would we have the Winter and Summer Solstices if we live on a flat earth?
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

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Offline Roundy

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 12:07:57 AM »
These questions are all answered in the wiki. I would post a link but I can't be arsed. It's easy to get there from the main page. Thanks for your interest and welcome to FES!
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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 01:32:38 PM »
These questions are all answered in the wiki. I would post a link but I can't be arsed. It's easy to get there from the main page. Thanks for your interest and welcome to FES!

That's why I came here, the wiki was unconvincing. If the questions I ask are answered by simply going on the wiki page than why can't people just answer them instead of dodging the question? Besides, what's the harm in wanting things elaborated on by those who believe in it?
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Offline Flatout

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 02:15:50 PM »
These questions are all answered in the wiki. I would post a link but I can't be arsed. It's easy to get there from the main page. Thanks for your interest and welcome to FES!

That's why I came here, the wiki was unconvincing. If the questions I ask are answered by simply going on the wiki page than why can't people just answer them instead of dodging the question? Besides, what's the harm in wanting things elaborated on by those who believe in it?
These questions gets asked again... And again..... And again..... And again.   Nobody wants to take the time to answer them everytime.

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 03:20:51 PM »

These questions gets asked again... And again..... And again..... And again.   Nobody wants to take the time to answer them everytime.

I understand how repetitive things can get. But if no ones even takes the time to answer them, how does that effect other's views on TFES. It only reinforces the stereotype that TFES dodges questions and constantly redirects questioners to other sources, as if only reading the material once will undoubtedly convince anyone, I know I wasn't. It makes you guys look lazy and I doubt that's the impression that you as a community want to give.
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 03:25:09 PM »
I have repeated the same fact about the real earth several times.
Why can't TFES do the same ?
How about doing the old ship and horizon thing again ?
If you look at this from a reality viewpoint,  the flat earth wiki and the whole flat earth idea is inconvincing.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:33:21 PM by geckothegeek »
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Offline junker

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3 Simple Questions
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 07:21:18 PM »

These questions gets asked again... And again..... And again..... And again.   Nobody wants to take the time to answer them everytime.

I understand how repetitive things can get. But if no ones even takes the time to answer them, how does that effect other's views on TFES. It only reinforces the stereotype that TFES dodges questions and constantly redirects questioners to other sources, as if only reading the material once will undoubtedly convince anyone, I know I wasn't. It makes you guys look lazy and I doubt that's the impression that you as a community want to give.


And yet your reply regarding the wiki was simply that it's "unconvincing." You didn't specify any particular points you disagree with, nor did you lay framework for a discussion beyond the answer you were given.

Most people aren't too concerned with other people's perceptions about our community, especially when those perceptions are formed from a post such as this. You claim that it makes us look lazy; I would suggest you look in the mirror, as what you've posted here was incredibly low effort. I would also suggest trying a bit harder next time if you're interested in actual discussion.

I have repeated the same fact about the real earth several times.
Why can't TFES do the same ?
How about doing the old ship and horizon thing again ?
If you look at this from a reality viewpoint,  the flat earth wiki and the whole flat earth idea is inconvincing.

Please stop regurgitating the same thing over and over in every thread. If you have nothing to add to the topic, then don't post. This is the last warning you'll get.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 07:26:36 PM by junker »
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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 08:00:38 PM »

These questions gets asked again... And again..... And again..... And again.   Nobody wants to take the time to answer them everytime.

I understand how repetitive things can get. But if no ones even takes the time to answer them, how does that effect other's views on TFES. It only reinforces the stereotype that TFES dodges questions and constantly redirects questioners to other sources, as if only reading the material once will undoubtedly convince anyone, I know I wasn't. It makes you guys look lazy and I doubt that's the impression that you as a community want to give.

These questions are asked and answered again and again, please use the search function on the forum.

I have repeated the same fact about the real earth several times.
Why can't TFES do the same ?
How about doing the old ship and horizon thing again ?
If you look at this from a reality viewpoint,  the flat earth wiki and the whole flat earth idea is inconvincing.

Please stop regurgitating the same thing over and over in every thread. If you have nothing to add to the topic, then don't post. This is the last warning you'll get.

If you could do an analysis of his posts you would probably find that 90% of them are the exact same things, just rearranged the slightest bit, but still hardly ever on topic. I've stopped responding to him in any meaningful way. These people demand your full attention and effort yet are only here to try to prop their own egos up a little bit. We get it, you're sooo much smarter than me because you remember what they taught you in 7th grade.

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 01:41:33 AM »

And yet your reply regarding the wiki was simply that it's "unconvincing." You didn't specify any particular points you disagree with, nor did you lay framework for a discussion beyond the answer you were given.

Most people aren't too concerned with other people's perceptions about our community, especially when those perceptions are formed from a post such as this. You claim that it makes us look lazy; I would suggest you look in the mirror, as what you've posted here was incredibly low effort. I would also suggest trying a bit harder next time if you're interested in actual discussion.

I see how I could expand on how I was unconvinced by the wiki. The FES says that the Sun acts as a spotlight on the Earth and it circles overhead. However, the wiki completely fail to explain why the Sun is a spotlight, what causes it to rotate above the Earth, and why its orbit expands and contracts to cause the seasons.
The RE Theroy can explain all of the observed motions of the Sun, moon, stars, and planets, the day and night cycle, and the seasons. The FE Theroy doesn't seem to explain them well at all.
If the Earth is flat, and the Sun is always circling above it, why do we see the Sun set? Even if its "spotlight" isn't shining on us anymore, it should still be overhead, albeit at an angle. But this doesn't happen. We see the Sun approach and pass below the horizon. For this to happen on a flat Earth, the Sun would have to actually pass below the plane of the Earth for us to see it pass below the horizon. But this isn't what the theory says. If the Sun actually were like a giant flashlight, and if we were about to pass outside of its light, shouldn't it appear to grow dimmer and eventually wink out somewhere in the sky?

Furthermore, what causes the Sun to move in a circle in the sky? Newton's first law says that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. If there were no forces acting on the Sun, it should either sit still or fly off in a straight line. So, there has to be something causing it to move in a circle. The FE Theroy doesn't say what. Is it a massive, invisible object over the Earth's north pole that the Sun orbits around? No, because they don't believe in gravity. Is it some magnetic field that's causing the Sun to move in a circle? No, it couldn't be, because the Sun isn't solid, so there would be nothing keeping the particles in a perfect sphere, and they might stretch out to form some kind of a halo, and our compasses would always point in the direction of the field, which would have to be either towards the ground or towards the sky. Could it be some invisible electric charge above the North pole? No, because the Sun would still stretch out. Could it be the strong or weak nuclear forces? No, they don't act on a macroscopic level. Since there are no natural forces left, could it be a contact force? No, we don't see anything pushing the Sun, and if there were something, it would deform the Sun's spherical shape. Since there cannot be any natural or contact forces making the Sun orbit above the North pole, it is physically impossible for it to be happening. This means that the seasons can't be caused by the expansion and contraction of the Sun's orbit, which doesn't make sense in its own right, because the Sun can't orbit an invisible point above the North pole.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 01:43:39 AM by Maverick »
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 01:43:45 PM »
Hello, I am new around this forum and I am not completely sold on any sort of "Flat Earth Theroy". I would need these three questions answered before I would give any credibility to this theory.

1. How do we have night and day on the flat earth?

There is some issue as to the actual meaning of night and day. According to some, just because the sun is visible does not mean it is necessarily day.

Regardless, even if day was taken to mean the Sun is visible, this does not mean the Sun would remain visible to everyone at all times over a flat earth.

2. How do we have seasons on the flat earth?
Why would there not be seasons on flat earth?

3. How would we have the Winter and Summer Solstices if we live on a flat earth?
Why would there not be solstices on the flat earth?

This is the time where the Sun can be located directly overhead at specific locations on the Earth at high noon.

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 03:03:58 PM »

There is some issue as to the actual meaning of night and day. According to some, just because the sun is visible does not mean it is necessarily day.

Regardless, even if day was taken to mean the Sun is visible, this does not mean the Sun would remain visible to everyone at all times over a flat earth.

Why would there not be seasons on flat earth?

Why would there not be solstices on the flat earth?

This is the time where the Sun can be located directly overhead at specific locations on the Earth at high noon.

1. If the Earth is flat, and the Sun is always circling above it, why do we see the Sun set? Even if its "spotlight" isn't shining on us anymore, it should still be overhead, albeit at an angle. But this doesn't happen. We see the Sun approach and pass below the horizon. For this to happen on a flat Earth, the Sun would have to actually pass below the plane of the Earth for us to see it pass below the horizon. But this isn't what the theory says. If the Sun actually were like a giant flashlight, and if we were about to pass outside of its light, shouldn't it appear to grow dimmer and eventually wink out somewhere in the sky?
Furthermore, what causes the Sun to move in a circle in the sky? Newton's first law says that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. If there were no forces acting on the Sun, it should either sit still or fly off in a straight line. So, there has to be something causing it to move in a circle. The FE Theroy doesn't say what. Is it a massive, invisible object over the Earth's north pole that the Sun orbits around? No, because they don't believe in gravity. Is it some magnetic field that's causing the Sun to move in a circle? No, it couldn't be, because the Sun isn't solid, so there would be nothing keeping the particles in a perfect sphere, and they might stretch out to form some kind of a halo, and our compasses would always point in the direction of the field, which would have to be either towards the ground or towards the sky. Could it be some invisible electric charge above the North pole? No, because the Sun would still stretch out. Could it be the strong or weak nuclear forces? No, they don't act on a macroscopic level. Since there are no natural forces left, could it be a contact force? No, we don't see anything pushing the Sun, and if there were something, it would deform the Sun's spherical shape. Since there cannot be any natural or contact forces making the Sun orbit above the North pole, it is physically impossible for it to be happening. This means that the seasons can't be caused by the expansion and contraction of the Sun's orbit, which doesn't make sense in its own right, because the Sun can't orbit an invisible point above the North pole. So what really causes night and day on a flat earth?

2. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the Earth's rotational axis away or toward the sun as it travels through its year-long path around the sun. The Earth has a tilt of 23.5 degrees relative to the "ecliptic plane" (the line formed by it's almost-cicular path around the sun). An Earth without a tilt would be stratified into climate bands that would get progressively colder as you moved away from the equator. Humans would never survive the continuous winter of the high latitudes, and so the only land we would live on would be the equator. The FE Wiki never mentions a tilt in their seasonal charts and rely on distance from the sun to explain seasons. It is a common misconception that seasons occur because of distance from the Sun, with winter occurring when Earth is farthest away from the Sun, and summer when it is closest to it. However, our planet's distance from the Sun has little effect on the onset of seasons. In fact, Earth is closest to the Sun around the Northern Hemisphere's winter solstice, while it is farthest away from the Sun around the north's summer solstice.

3. The tilt toward the sun is maximized during Northern Hemisphere summer in late June (the "summer solstice"). At this time, the amount of sunlight reaching the Northern Hemisphere is at a maximum. In late December, on the date of the "winter solstice", the Earth's tilt away from the sun is maximized, leading to a minimum of sunlight reaching the Northern Hemisphere. The seasons, of course, are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere. Without this tilt which would be impossible on a flat earth solstices wouldn't exist.
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 09:35:46 PM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Offline Flatout

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2017, 10:34:30 PM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.

It would be interesting to know how it accelerates as it moves farther out to the Tropic of Capricorn and decelerates as it moves in towards the Tropic of Cancer.

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 10:53:58 PM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.

It would be interesting to know how it accelerates as it moves farther out to the Tropic of Capricorn and decelerates as it moves in towards the Tropic of Cancer.

Does the Earth accelerate when it is going along the elongated portions of it's elliptical orbit?

Offline Flatout

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2017, 03:33:54 AM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.

It would be interesting to know how it accelerates as it moves farther out to the Tropic of Capricorn and decelerates as it moves in towards the Tropic of Cancer.

Does the Earth accelerate when it is going along the elongated portions of it's elliptical orbit?
Yes it does accelerate at perihelion.  It is measurable by the sun's analemma and the observation makes sense with our understanding of orbital mechanics based on gravity.  The ability of an object to accelerate and decelerate within one single elliptical orbit is quite calculable and can be modeled.  How does it work on the flat earth?  The sun on the flat earth model decelerates as it gets closer to the center over multiple orbits and then accelerates as it moves away over multiple orbits. This is counter to our present understanding of orbital mechanics and contrary to our observations.    Anytime there is constant deceleration over multiple orbits the object begins to get closer and closer to the primary until it collides with it.

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2017, 02:48:20 PM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.

It would be interesting to know how it accelerates as it moves farther out to the Tropic of Capricorn and decelerates as it moves in towards the Tropic of Cancer.

It would be interesting to be able to make sense of the absurdities of quantum mechanics, but there are just some things we can easily observe without understanding with our present level of knowledge.  Perhaps some day.
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 04:13:34 PM »
A  little flat earth information on this shifting of the sun's orbit to change the seasons would be appreciated.
As I understand it, there is some kind of force involved to make the orbit shrink or expand to explain the change in seasons.

It would be interesting to know how it accelerates as it moves farther out to the Tropic of Capricorn and decelerates as it moves in towards the Tropic of Cancer.

Does the Earth accelerate when it is going along the elongated portions of it's elliptical orbit?
Yes it does accelerate at perihelion.  It is measurable by the sun's analemma and the observation makes sense with our understanding of orbital mechanics based on gravity.  The ability of an object to accelerate and decelerate within one single elliptical orbit is quite calculable and can be modeled.  How does it work on the flat earth?  The sun on the flat earth model decelerates as it gets closer to the center over multiple orbits and then accelerates as it moves away over multiple orbits. This is counter to our present understanding of orbital mechanics and contrary to our observations.    Anytime there is constant deceleration over multiple orbits the object begins to get closer and closer to the primary until it collides with it.

Orbital mechanics explain why the Earth can speed up or slow down, but you refuse to accept it as any reason why an orbiting sun could speed up or slow down. Why?

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 07:55:06 PM »
The acceleration and deceleration in the heliocentric model happen within a single elliptical orbit.  The flat earth model has deceleration happening over multiple orbits as the sun nears the center and and then reverses to acceleration over multiple orbits as the sun moves out.  The motion and the acceleration in that regard are contrary to any principles presently stated within orbital mechanics. For your model to be believable,  TFES will need to develop and propose a new orbital mechanic.   

Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 08:23:11 PM »
The acceleration and deceleration in the heliocentric model happen within a single elliptical orbit.  The flat earth model has deceleration happening over multiple orbits as the sun nears the center and and then reverses to acceleration over multiple orbits as the sun moves out.  The motion and the acceleration in that regard are contrary to any principles presently stated within orbital mechanics. For your model to be believable,  TFES will need to develop and propose a new orbital mechanic.   

Or maybe, the theory of orbital mechanics that you hold as gospel is exactly what it is, a theory. There is no scientific evidence of gravity induced orbiting of anything, anywhere.

You start with assumption that the present day explanation for movements of celestial bodies isn't up for debate. You also start with the assumption that the mechanics and theories used to prop up a round heliocentric model of our solar system, can somehow be re-retrofitted to explain phenomena as experienced by an observer on a flat, stationary Earth.

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Re: 3 Simple Questions
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 12:40:38 AM »
The acceleration and deceleration in the heliocentric model happen within a single elliptical orbit.  The flat earth model has deceleration happening over multiple orbits as the sun nears the center and and then reverses to acceleration over multiple orbits as the sun moves out.  The motion and the acceleration in that regard are contrary to any principles presently stated within orbital mechanics. For your model to be believable,  TFES will need to develop and propose a new orbital mechanic.   

Or maybe, the theory of orbital mechanics that you hold as gospel is exactly what it is, a theory. There is no scientific evidence of gravity induced orbiting of anything, anywhere.

You start with assumption that the present day explanation for movements of celestial bodies isn't up for debate. You also start with the assumption that the mechanics and theories used to prop up a round heliocentric model of our solar system, can somehow be re-retrofitted to explain phenomena as experienced by an observer on a flat, stationary Earth.
Or that they are right and the space agencies across the globe are actually putting things in orbit and expanding the possibilities of what is possible.  I have an app on my phone the reminds me daily of predicted satellites that go overhead.  The prediction is accurate in time, elevation, direction, and fade out point.  That is pretty tough to fake all across the globe.  What predictions do you make with your awesome knowledge and models?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 12:51:55 AM by Flatout »