If you’ve been next to a port lately, or just strolled down a beach and stared off vacantly into the horizon, you might have, perhaps, noticed a very interesting phenomenon: approaching ships do not just “appear” out of the horizon (like they should have if the world was flat), but rather emerge from beneath the sea.
But – you say – ships do not submerge and rise up again as they approach our view (except in “Pirates of the Caribbean”, but we are hereby assuming that was a fictitious movie). The reason ships appear as if they “emerge from the waves” is because the world is not flat: it’s round.



Imagine an ant walking along the surface of an orange, into your field of view. If you look at the orange “head on”, you will see the ant’s body slowly rising up from the “horizon”, because of the curvature of the Orange. If you would do that experiment with a long road, the effect would have changed: The ant would have slowly ‘materialized’ into view, depending on how sharp your vision is.

If you are caught up on your Navigation history, old ship capitals used to navigate the seas by the stars. They relied on different constellations depending on where they were around the world. This observation was originally made by Aristotle (384-322 BCE), who declared the Earth was round judging from the different constellations one sees while moving away from the equator.



After returning from a trip to Egypt, Aristotle noted that “there are stars seen in Egypt and…Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions.” This phenomenon can only be explained if humans were viewing the stars from a round surface. Aristotle continued and claimed that the sphere of the Earth is “of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent.” (De caelo, 298a2-10)
The farther you go from the equator, the farther the ‘known’ constellations go towards the horizon, and are replaced by different stars. This would not have happened if the world was flat:

"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Thanks for the doodles, but most people here know that optics is governed by an infinitely more complex model than you guy chart in Microsoft Paint

Thanks for the doodles, but most people here know that optics is governed by an infinitely more complex model than you guy chart in Microsoft Paint

He is talking about basic line-of-sight. Please do explain these complexities to us humble laypeople.

Thanks for the doodles, but most people here know that optics is governed by an infinitely more complex model than you guy chart in Microsoft Paint

As TotesNotReptilian said, I'm talking about basic line of sight and elementary school level logic that disproves the Flat Earth Theory. It's not always complex Einstine level physics and math.
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Thanks for the doodles, but most people here know that optics is governed by an infinitely more complex model than you guy chart in Microsoft Paint

He is talking about basic line-of-sight. Please do explain these complexities to us humble laypeople.

Perspective, refraction, atmospheric distortion, optical resolution, angle of viewing, what exactly you're looking at, where it actually is.

There is no such thing as "basic" line-of-sight

Thanks for the doodles, but most people here know that optics is governed by an infinitely more complex model than you guy chart in Microsoft Paint

He is talking about basic line-of-sight. Please do explain these complexities to us humble laypeople.

Perspective, refraction, atmospheric distortion, optical resolution, angle of viewing, what exactly you're looking at, where it actually is.

There is no such thing as "basic" line-of-sight

A word of friendy advice to TheTruthIsOnHere :

Don't ever say "There is no such thing as 'basic line of sight'" to anyone who has ever been in the navy, or worked on certain radar, radio, microwave relay systems and at least a few dozen other subjects et cetrera, et cetera, and so forth dealing with "basic line of sight." Just look up the definition of "line of sight." LOL.

You would also be doing us poor laymen a favor if you would explain what the horizon looks like on a flat earth and how you can estimate the distance to the horizon if the earth was flat.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 07:53:26 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Geeko, I swear to God you've already asked me that exact same question, and went on the exact same Navy spiel a dozen times. I'm sure I've exhausted myself trying to explain what a horizon looks like to wannabe nuclear physicists like you. Not gonna take the bait this time. Explain how none of those things I listed affect your line of sight.

Geeko, I swear to God you've already asked me that exact same question, and went on the exact same Navy spiel a dozen times. I'm sure I've exhausted myself trying to explain what a horizon looks like to wannabe nuclear physicists like you. Not gonna take the bait this time. Explain how none of those things I listed affect your line of sight.

OK, truthy...... I apologize for being a nuisance by my repetitions.
Just post yours and I'll post mine.
Maybe there are some newcomers to the forum who haven't seen them ?
 As to the "navy spiel" ,  are you going to say that everyone who has ever been in the navy is a liar because of what they say what they have seen of the old "recovering to view a ship which has passed over the horizon" and "the horizon and estimating the distance to the horizon" subjects  ?
Also, have you ever worked on anything in which the line of sight is involved ?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 01:32:42 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Here's something to continue our line of sight exercises:

The higher up you are the farther you will see. Usually, we tend to relate this to Earthly obstacles, like the fact we have houses or other trees obstructing our vision on the ground, and climbing upwards we have a clear view, but that’s not the true reason. Even if you would have a completely clear plateau with no obstacles between you and the horizon, you would see much farther from greater height than you would on the ground.
This phenomenon is caused by the curvature of the Earth as well, and would not happen if the Earth was flat:





« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 03:20:28 PM by Maverick »
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

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Geeko, I swear to God you've already asked me that exact same question, and went on the exact same Navy spiel a dozen times. I'm sure I've exhausted myself trying to explain what a horizon looks like to wannabe nuclear physicists like you. Not gonna take the bait this time. Explain how none of those things I listed affect your line of sight.
I've searched and can't find that explanation. Maybe you can just post a link to where you "exhausted yourself trying to explain what a horizon looks like"?

It was on the post where I explained how you still see further with increased altitude on a flat or imperceptibly round earth. All you have to do to know that would be to stand on a ladder but that's not scientific enough for some people.

Geeko, I swear to God you've already asked me that exact same question, and went on the exact same Navy spiel a dozen times. I'm sure I've exhausted myself trying to explain what a horizon looks like to wannabe nuclear physicists like you. Not gonna take the bait this time. Explain how none of those things I listed affect your line of sight.
I've searched and can't find that explanation. Maybe you can just post a link to where you "exhausted yourself trying to explain what a horizon looks like"?

I don't claim to have exhausted myself.
You can look up "horizon" in any source of reference any way.
But I haven't seen if flat earthers even believe there is a horizon ?
The best I have seen is this "......An indistinct blur which fades away at an indefinite distance....."
Does this mean there is or is not a horizon on a flat earth ?
So if it's not too much of a trouble, would you just post the flat earth explanation again ?
Where IS the horizon on your flat earth ? And what IS the DISTANCE to it ?
......For those of us who might have missed it in the first place or time ?
I wouln't mind in the least posting the round earth explanation again if you would like it .Absolutely !  No problem. No trouble.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 06:32:35 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !



You completely missed the point with your illustration

OK.
Simple question.
First question
What is the HORIZON on a flat earth ? Description  please.
Second will follow after (if ?) I get an answer.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 01:41:37 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !



You completely missed the point with your illustration

Sorry, I accidentally replicated the latter image. I fixed it
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)



You completely missed the point with your illustration

Sorry, I accidentally replicated the latter image. I fixed it

You're still not addressing the increased line of sight you still achieve with increased altitude on the flat earth.

Also you're neglecting the fact that when looking towards the horizon the ground appears to come up and meet the sky. Trying to illustrate how light is actually perceived by the human eye with 2 dimensional stick figures is not at all an appropriate reflection of reality.

I keep asking.
Where is the horizon on a flat earth ?
How can you estimate the distance to the horizon on a flat earth ?
The answers are simple on a round earth.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !



You completely missed the point with your illustration

Sorry, I accidentally replicated the latter image. I fixed it

You're still not addressing the increased line of sight you still achieve with increased altitude on the flat earth.

Also you're neglecting the fact that when looking towards the horizon the ground appears to come up and meet the sky. Trying to illustrate how light is actually perceived by the human eye with 2 dimensional stick figures is not at all an appropriate reflection of reality.

There is no increased line of sight in the flat earth, it impossible without the curvature of the earth, and the stick figures are just an example. I'm doing these exercises that don't need long hours of math and calculations so that you yourselves can do these at home. All these are impossible without a round earth and yet we see echoes of the results every day. In fact, the Burden of Proof is on TFES to showcase evidence disproving decades of scientific research that can't just be explained away as a "conspiracy". Tell me, how much does NASA have to gain from releasing fake photos to "lie" to us that the earth is round when the average American spends more money on pizza every year than their yearly budget (27 billion dollars worth of pizza). NASA's FY 2011 budget of $18.4 billion represented about 0.5% of the $3.4 trillion United States federal budget during that year, or about 35% of total spending on academic scientific research in the United States. These numbers are minuscule.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 06:20:34 PM by Maverick »
"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death" -(Miyamoto Musashi)

Here's something to continue our line of sight exercises:

The higher up you are the farther you will see. Usually, we tend to relate this to Earthly obstacles, like the fact we have houses or other trees obstructing our vision on the ground, and climbing upwards we have a clear view, but that’s not the true reason. Even if you would have a completely clear plateau with no obstacles between you and the horizon, you would see much farther from greater height than you would on the ground.
This phenomenon is caused by the curvature of the Earth as well, and would not happen if the Earth was flat:






Here's something you could do if you were in the Navy. (If the Officer Of The Deck would give you permission to do this).
Take a telescope with you and and go down to see how far you can see to the horizon when you're standing up in the Liberty Boat.
Go back up on board and see how far you can see from the Main Deck.
Go up on the Bridge and do this.
Go up in the Crow's Nest and do it again. (I don't know if ships still have Crow's Nests. If not, climb to the top of the  highest mast) This exercise is not suggested for acrophobics !
See if it makes any difference how far you can see to the horizon from these different places.

Admittedly this would be a problem for flat earthers. I've never heard of a flat earth Navy. They all go "round" the earth.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 06:34:57 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !



You completely missed the point with your illustration

Sorry, I accidentally replicated the latter image. I fixed it

You're still not addressing the increased line of sight you still achieve with increased altitude on the flat earth.

Also you're neglecting the fact that when looking towards the horizon the ground appears to come up and meet the sky. Trying to illustrate how light is actually perceived by the human eye with 2 dimensional stick figures is not at all an appropriate reflection of reality.

There is no increased line of sight in the flat earth, it impossible without the curvature of the earth, and the stick figures are just an example. I'm doing these exercises that don't need long hours of math and calculations so that you yourselves can do these at home. All these are impossible without a round earth and yet we see echoes of the results every day. In fact, the Burden of Proof is on TFES to showcase evidence disproving decades of scientific research that can't just be explained away as a "conspiracy". Tell me, how much does NASA have to gain from releasing fake photos to "lie" to us that the earth is round when the average American spends more money on pizza every year than their yearly budget (27 billion dollars worth of pizza). NASA's FY 2011 budget of $18.4 billion represented about 0.5% of the $3.4 trillion United States federal budget during that year, or about 35% of total spending on academic scientific research in the United States. These numbers are minuscule.

You say there is no increased line of sight on a flat earth... when I literally used your own illustration to show you that there is. That brown line is the line of sight. You can technically see objects that are further away than you could from the ground.

You didn't offer any mathematical or scientific accompaniment with your illustrations because you don't have any. You show us MS Paint sketches without any evidence that you have even a rudimentary knowledge how light or optics work.