Foucault Pendulum
« on: February 13, 2017, 06:54:12 PM »
I'm surprised I haven't seen any posts on this topic, especially since it is something you can do yourself if you have a high enough ceiling.
One pendulum proves the earth is spinning, multiple pendulums at different latitudes prove the earth is a spinning globe.
Yes, I am aware of the Allais Effect. If you look up gravitational variations during a total solar eclipse you will find some interesting information, that may account for the allais effect. Also it appears that some solar eclipse experiments may have controlled temperature but not pressure, while others accounted for both; which could explain why the allais effect is not observed with all pendulums. Or maybe not all of the locations that were tested observed a full solar eclipse, I didn't see anything mentioning if it was a total or partial eclipse on most of the experiments. From what I saw it's still not completely understood as of yet, and definitely doesn't "debunk" the information we get from the pendulum.

Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 03:42:28 PM »
So, how would Focault's Pendulum be possible on a flat stationary Earth?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 01:11:35 AM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Foucault_Pendulum

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Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

Offline Flatout

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Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 01:42:55 AM »
The wiki states that gravity doesn't exist.   Are you telling me that the stars have gravity but the earth doesn't?

Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 02:54:20 AM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Foucault_Pendulum

Quote
Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

If that were so then the pendulum wouldn't rotate in different directions in the two hemispheres. Wouldn't the speed be the same on the entire earth? Or maybe it's like a CD, the middle rotates the quickest and the outer edge the slowest. That doesn't happen either, a flat earth would have the South Pole as the edge, but it rotates the same speed as the North Pole, and there is no rotation on the equator. On a flat disc that makes no since, but it makes perfect since for a spinning sphere.
Wouldn't large objects on the ground be effected by this gravity from the stars as well? Like buildings slowly being twisted...

Your wiki also states:
Summarily, the line of the pendula must be 25 meters in length to get the minimum effect, and so by necessity, Leon Focault's original experiments between latitudes were conducted outside hung from a tree exposed to the elements. Dr. Rowbotham finds that the variations of the pendula are caused entirely by the contraction and expansion of its line due to temperature variations upon the earth's surface in relation to the nearness of the Sun. These variations match up perfectly with the official published results of Focault's experiments.

Too bad a current pendulum used for scientific research is in a controlled environment. The temperature and pressure are controlled, so the only difference is the location (latitude).

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 06:36:48 AM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Foucault_Pendulum

Quote
Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

If that were so then the pendulum wouldn't rotate in different directions in the two hemispheres. Wouldn't the speed be the same on the entire earth? Or maybe it's like a CD, the middle rotates the quickest and the outer edge the slowest. That doesn't happen either, a flat earth would have the South Pole as the edge, but it rotates the same speed as the North Pole, and there is no rotation on the equator. On a flat disc that makes no since, but it makes perfect since for a spinning sphere.
Wouldn't large objects on the ground be effected by this gravity from the stars as well? Like buildings slowly being twisted...

Your wiki also states:
Summarily, the line of the pendula must be 25 meters in length to get the minimum effect, and so by necessity, Leon Focault's original experiments between latitudes were conducted outside hung from a tree exposed to the elements. Dr. Rowbotham finds that the variations of the pendula are caused entirely by the contraction and expansion of its line due to temperature variations upon the earth's surface in relation to the nearness of the Sun. These variations match up perfectly with the official published results of Focault's experiments.

Too bad a current pendulum used for scientific research is in a controlled environment. The temperature and pressure are controlled, so the only difference is the location (latitude).
To make Tom Bishop's more plausible you must realise that his flat earth is the "bi-polar model" with the celestial objects rotating in opposite directions about each pole,
as in Re: Coriolis effect in FET « Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 06:45:38 AM ».

But, as far as I am concerned "Mach's Principle" is just that, a "principle" not even a theory and from what I can see the consensus seems to be that it and General Relativity are contradictory.
This is the start of the Wikipedia entry:
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Mach's principle
In theoretical physics, particularly in discussions of gravitation theories, Mach's principle (or Mach's conjecture[1]) is the name given by Einstein to an imprecise hypothesis often credited to the physicist and philosopher Ernst Mach. The idea is that local inertial frames are determined by the large scale distribution of matter, as exemplified by this anecdote:

         You are standing in a field looking at the stars. Your arms are resting freely at your side, and you see that the distant stars are not moving. Now start spinning.
         The stars are whirling around you and your arms are pulled away from your body. Why should your arms be pulled away when the stars are whirling?
         Why should they be dangling freely when the stars don't move?


Mach's principle says that this is not a coincidence—that there is a physical law that relates the motion of the distant stars to the local inertial frame. If you see all the stars whirling around you, Mach suggests that there is some physical law which would make it so you would feel a centrifugal force. There are a number of rival formulations of the principle. It is often stated in vague ways, like "mass out there influences inertia here". A very general statement of Mach's principle is "Local physical laws are determined by the large-scale structure of the universe."

From Wikipedia, Mach's principle
But you note that Mach's Principle refers to "inertial frames", not gravitation.
Tom's "celestial gravitation" does not, I believe, need Mach's Principle. If "gravitation" is real, then the celestial objects will exert some gravitational effect of objects on earth, but I have never seen any effects to quantify it or test. It certainly could not explain "marine gyro-compasses", align with the rotational axis of the Globe.

To finish here is a link to a Physics Stack Exchange session on Mach's Principle Physics Stack Exchange, Is Mach's Principle Wrong?

But Mach's Principle leads to some apparently absurd situations. One is "Newton's Bucket.


Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 05:56:58 PM »

Quote
To make Tom Bishop's more plausible you must realise that his flat earth is the "bi-polar model" with the celestial objects rotating in opposite directions about each pole,
as in Re: Coriolis effect in FET « Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 06:45:38 AM ».

So Tom thinks the stars act like two gears rotating against eachother right above the equator? If that were true I guess that would explain the different direction of rotation and speed.
How big and far away does he think the stars are? Do they believe the same thing about the stars as they do the Sun and Moon?
He also tried to use those pictures of stars at the equator to disprove a round earth, which is completely false. There should be no curve of the stars at the equator just like there is no rotation of a pendulum at the equator. The further you go North or South than the stars should curve more and more in opposite directions until it completes a complete rotation just like the pendulum (making a full rotation in 24 hours at the poles). So, we have two things doing the exact same thing along with others such as hurricanes. One maybe about 30 feet from the ground and one light years from the earth, but yeah it makes complete since that stars light years away are causing a pendulum to rotate while they perfectly rotate around our planet to separate their direction over our equator instead of the earth itself just spinning...
Tom, I still would like an explanation on how that would not effect buildings over time. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:08:26 PM by phayes9891 »

Re: Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 08:00:26 PM »
A couple more things how would seasons, sun rise/set, 24 hour light/dark at the poles etc. work on the bi-polar map?
It would have to be completely different than what the wiki says, since that's a completely different map. I suppose you could use the same "spotlight" idea, which is completely ridiculous to begin with for the actual night/day, but that doesn't explain where the sun would be rising and setting. You also have the same size problem, the Sun doesn't change sizes throughout the day.
How could you possibly have a duration of 24 hour day/night at the poles without the Sun orbiting the poles? On that map it can't orbit either pole because when the Sun would be on the other side the rest of the world will be in darkness. At least the other map works with the north pole in that regard, but not the south pole.
For the seasons I can't think of any explanation other than the Sun moves its orbit from north to south, but then during certain times the orbit would be directly over the poles, among many other problems with that. I really don't see how seasons could work at all with that map. Also what is the mechanism that would cause the Suns orbit to change so drastically for either map?