Offline Rekt

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This wiki entry though......
« on: February 10, 2017, 05:25:51 PM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander
Read the article. The top quote from a so called "Expert" is from Tom Bishop, first sign that it's bullshit
The other quotes belie a complete misunderstanding of the environment of the moon
The black stuff is thermal insulation
The gold foil protects it from micrometeoroids
The lunar lander didn't have to be solid, the gravity of the moon is 1/8 that of earth
Just one of the many flaws in FES's NASA denials



Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 09:54:01 PM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander
Read the article. The top quote from a so called "Expert" is from Tom Bishop, first sign that it's bullshit
The other quotes belie a complete misunderstanding of the environment of the moon
The black stuff is thermal insulation
The gold foil protects it from micrometeoroids
The lunar lander didn't have to be solid, the gravity of the moon is 1/8 that of earth
Just one of the many flaws in FES's NASA denials

Lol @ small minds unable to adjust their expectations of a vehicle designed for a radically different environment.

Here is a good writeup that someone did explaining the odd look of the lander.

Quick clarification about the "gold foil":

"Not metal foil, these plastic films are thinly coated with aluminum, which reflects the sun's heat and insulates the spacecraft. The thin, gold-colored films are used in "blankets" of up to 25 layers. All of the plastic films protect the spacecraft from micrometeoroids."
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 09:56:28 PM by TotesNotReptilian »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 10:09:45 PM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 10:22:00 PM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 11:31:59 PM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

Because there are better materials to hold together a six billion dollar space ship which goes to the hostile environment of the moon.

Seriously, tape?

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 11:38:34 PM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

Because there are better materials to hold together a six billion dollar space ship which goes to the hostile environment of the moon.

Like... ?

(Keep in mind, the tape is for the outer layer of insulation. It isn't structural.)

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 11:56:48 PM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

Because there are better materials to hold together a six billion dollar space ship which goes to the hostile environment of the moon.

Seriously, tape?
Because tape was strong enough for holding the insulation in place in an environment with no atmosphere, where solid brackets on a fairly thin layer of insulation would add to the weight and increase the fuel budget.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 12:06:43 AM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

Because there are better materials to hold together a six billion dollar space ship which goes to the hostile environment of the moon.

Seriously, tape?
Because tape was strong enough for holding the insulation in place in an environment with no atmosphere, where solid brackets on a fairly thin layer of insulation would add to the weight and increase the fuel budget.

Also, tape is less likely to tear the insulation.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 12:11:41 AM »
Why would a space agency hold pieces of its lunar lander together with tape?

Why wouldn't it?

Because there are better materials to hold together a six billion dollar space ship which goes to the hostile environment of the moon.

Seriously, tape?
Because tape was strong enough for holding the insulation in place in an environment with no atmosphere, where solid brackets on a fairly thin layer of insulation would add to the weight and increase the fuel budget.

Also, tape is less likely to tear the insulation.
Right.

I really don't get why it's so hard to accept. Sure space is a scary place, but there's some general misunderstandings, like shielding from radiation is impossible and relative velocity will kill all living things. In a vacuum. It puzzles me.

And yet it's totally accepted that weather stations in the middle of the ocean with sensitive sensory equipment can survive harsh conditions like hurricanes, high salinity, constant temperature changes, and general atmospheric wear and tear for years and years. It's as uninformed as it gets.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2017, 09:34:51 PM »
Heat shielding is pretty important. The heat shielding should be properly embedded. The thought of haphazardly using scotch tape to affix the heat shielding onto a lunar space craft that did all of the things NASA claimed it did is ridiculous, and anyone can see that.

If you zoom into the image we also see that the exterior white walls of the craft are not even air tight or firmly sealed. There are gaps everywhere. The whole thing appears to be incredibly amateur.

Are we really expected to believe that a real lunar lander built by the best engineers in the world would look like something some teenagers threw together in a weekend after a trip to the stationary store and the junk yard?

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2017, 09:45:06 PM »
Heat shielding is pretty important. The heat shielding should be properly embedded.

Agreed. Please show us the calculations that reveal that it isn't properly "embedded". This should include failure stress, desired safety margin, and predicted maximum stress experienced.

Quote
The thought of haphazardly using scotch tape to affix the heat shielding on a six billion dollar space craft that did all of the things NASA claimed it did is ridiculous, and anyone can see that.

What makes you think they used scotch tape?

Quote
If you zoom into the image we also see that the exterior white walls of the craft are not even air tight or firmly sealed. There are gaps everywhere. The whole thing appears to be incredibly amateur.

At least look at some schematics before criticizing it. Many parts aren't air tight because they don't need to be. Are you sure that the wall you are referring to needs to be air tight?

Quote
Are we really expected to believe that a real lunar lander built by the best engineers in the world would look like something some teenagers threw together in a weekend after a trip to the stationary store and the junk yard?

Just read this already. It explains why it looks the way it does. I'm sorry it isn't pretty enough for you, but "looking pretty" wasn't part of the design goals.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 10:41:59 PM »
Heat shielding is pretty important. The heat shielding should be properly embedded. The thought of haphazardly using scotch tape to affix the heat shielding onto a lunar space craft that did all of the things NASA claimed it did is ridiculous, and anyone can see that.

If you zoom into the image we also see that the exterior white walls of the craft are not even air tight or firmly sealed. There are gaps everywhere. The whole thing appears to be incredibly amateur.

Are we really expected to believe that a real lunar lander built by the best engineers in the world would look like something some teenagers threw together in a weekend after a trip to the stationary store and the junk yard?

This is an argument from ridicule and incredulity, nothing more.

But I wonder, if it is a fake, why such an obvious one? They surely had the budget to figure out what a real lunar lander should look like? Wait, maybe they did...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 01:38:36 AM »
Agreed. Please show us the calculations that reveal that it isn't properly "embedded". This should include failure stress, desired safety margin, and predicted maximum stress experienced.

So now your argument that each piece of tape was placed and calculated to withstand any and all stresses the craft could possibly encounter from landing and launching from the lunar surface? Give me a break.

Quote
What makes you think they used scotch tape?

NASA contracts with Scotch for its tape, and did so in the 60's. Here is some old NASA Scotch tape for sale on Ebay.

Quote
At least look at some schematics before criticizing it. Many parts aren't air tight because they don't need to be. Are you sure that the wall you are referring to needs to be air tight?

The exterior walls appear to be barely hanging on. They would be firmer if everything was properly sealed. And we are to believe that it was sent into space like that?

Quote
Quote
Are we really expected to believe that a real lunar lander built by the best engineers in the world would look like something some teenagers threw together in a weekend after a trip to the stationary store and the junk yard?

Just read this already. It explains why it looks the way it does. I'm sorry it isn't pretty enough for you, but "looking pretty" wasn't part of the design goals.

The argument there is that it only looks like a hastily thrown together big pile of rubbish, but is actually a state-of-the-art space ship. There is no explanation for WHY everything is so crudly thrown together. Are the exterior walls of the ship not properly sealed for some calculated and scientific purpose?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 02:52:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 01:42:20 AM »
This is an argument from ridicule and incredulity, nothing more.

But I wonder, if it is a fake, why such an obvious one? They surely had the budget to figure out what a real lunar lander should look like? Wait, maybe they did...

There are a lot of things about the Apollo program which show that the missions were an obvious fake. The people at NASA weren't expert film and prop masters. They were really bad at it.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 03:21:02 AM »
So now your argument that each piece of tape was placed and calculated to withstand any and all stresses the craft could possibly encounter from landing and launching from the lunar surface? Give me a break.

you don't have to test each piece of tape.  you can just shake the whole thing.

you can also put a suite of sensors in the test vehicle when you shake it and use that data to quantify the forces on any arbitrary component.

i'm still not sure why you think it matters that they use paper and tape.  the only forces the paper would experience are caused by the craft to which it is attached.  there isn't anything else in a vacuum to move it around.  it's not like all the package labels in a fedex truck go flying off anytime the truck hits a pothole.  basically the same thing.
shitposting leftists are never alone

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2017, 03:35:50 AM »
you don't have to test each piece of tape.  you can just shake the whole thing.

you can also put a suite of sensors in the test vehicle when you shake it and use that data to quantify the forces on any arbitrary component.

i'm still not sure why you think it matters that they use paper and tape.  the only forces the paper would experience are caused by the craft to which it is attached.  there isn't anything else in a vacuum to move it around.  it's not like all the package labels in a fedex truck go flying off anytime the truck hits a pothole.  basically the same thing.

And you really think that piece of taped up junkyard trash could survive a good shaking?

Even the Amazon boxes in FexEx trucks are better held together than the Lunar Lander appears to be. Have you ever tried to open one of those things with your bare hands? Not easy.

If something is well put together and structurally sound, then it will appear to be well put together and structurally sound. Its really that simple. Those are qualities airplanes, submarines, and Amazon boxes have and the Lunar Lander does not.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 04:05:40 AM »
Even the Amazon boxes in FexEx trucks are better held together than the Lunar Lander appears to be. Have you ever tried to open one of those things with your bare hands? Not easy.

i was thinking of shipping labels that are sometimes taped to the exterior of the box.  they don't go flying off their boxes just because the truck shakes.

If something is well put together and structurally sound, then it will appear to be well put together and structurally sound. Its really that simple. Those are qualities airplanes, submarines, and Amazon boxes have and the Lunar Lander does not.

lol if you insist, i guess.  that's not an engineering principle i've ever heard of.  btw submarines and airplanes travel through a medium.  apples and oranges.

you could probably just test this yourself.  it wouldn't be that hard to tape some paper to a paint can and put it in a paint shaker.  it also wouldn't be hard to tape some paper to different surfaces and measure the force necessary to dislodge the paper.
shitposting leftists are never alone

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 07:34:50 AM »
Heat shielding is pretty important. The heat shielding should be properly embedded. The thought of haphazardly using scotch tape to affix the heat shielding onto a lunar space craft that did all of the things NASA claimed it did is ridiculous, and anyone can see that.

If you zoom into the image we also see that the exterior white walls of the craft are not even air tight or firmly sealed. There are gaps everywhere. The whole thing appears to be incredibly amateur.

Are we really expected to believe that a real lunar lander built by the best engineers in the world would look like something some teenagers threw together in a weekend after a trip to the stationary store and the junk yard?
And now Tom Bishop is an expert on the design on lunar landers,.  All from what he can see from a photo!

Its a bit like all these armchair experts saying that nothing can get through that terrible thermosphere! How do these smsrty-pants think all this data on the thermosphere was gsthered?
And we have others saying that, after casting their Mark I eyeballs over a poor quality photo this or that is a fake.

Give us a break!  Do some research before showing your ignorance.

I am sure that if NASA was trying to fool anybody, they would have spent a little of their budget on convincing props.

Anyoneone claiming that their cursory glance can pick up all these weaknesses just proves that they have a grossly over inflated opinion of their own abilities.

Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 09:05:54 AM »
This is a downright embarrassing read.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: This wiki entry though......
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2017, 01:46:32 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz
And now Tom Bishop is an expert on the design on lunar landers,.  All from what he can see from a photo!

Its a bit like all these armchair experts saying that nothing can get through that terrible thermosphere! How do these smsrty-pants think all this data on the thermosphere was gsthered?
And we have others saying that, after casting their Mark I eyeballs over a poor quality photo this or that is a fake.

Give us a break!  Do some research before showing your ignorance.

I am sure that if NASA was trying to fool anybody, they would have spent a little of their budget on convincing props.

Anyoneone claiming that their cursory glance can pick up all these weaknesses just proves that they have a grossly over inflated opinion of their own abilities.

Please explain for us, in clear terms, what engineering or scientific purpose NASA would have for not properly sealing the exterior hull.

Does a loosely held together hull provide some kind of great benefit that we just cant see with our uncultured eyes?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 01:48:34 PM by Tom Bishop »