Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« on: February 06, 2017, 09:04:18 PM »
So, the last video posted from CHL (Testing Flattards # 1) got taken away from the general points and no one contested the actual data from the video. To follow up, I think we should give those who subscribe to a flat earth more things to explain about their model:


I'll ask those responding to keep this thread focused on the data from the video (location of the sun and stars), or at a minimum information from either video (e.g. inaccurate measurements of the Southern Hemisphere on a Gleason map).

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 12:00:44 AM »
The author of that video is using the 1800's Flat Earth model that was created before the South Pole was discovered. After the South Pole was discovered and more of the world was explored the Flat Earth model was updated with this information to include two poles and two celestial systems. The model is described in "The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions" by Zetetes (1918). A pdf may be found in our library.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 04:32:58 AM »
The author of that video is using the 1800's Flat Earth model that was created before the South Pole was discovered. After the South Pole was discovered and more of the world was explored the Flat Earth model was updated with this information to include two poles and two celestial systems. The model is described in "The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions" by Zetetes (1918). A pdf may be found in our library.
And I believe that the "bipolar" model has even bigger problems with the directions of the sun than the  "ice-wall" model.
These seem to be overcome by Zetetes claiming that light magically bends to make the direction's of the sun match perfectly the predictions we  see on the globe.

That all seems so very convenient, especially when the globe model had been around for well over 2 millennia before Zetetes comes up with his invention.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 08:37:06 AM »
That's it Tom? The guy rips your world apart, and you come back with, well that crap map no longer stands, some other loony came up with another crap map, let's just ignore the rest?
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 10:24:13 AM »
As mentioned in the previous CHL thread, the problem with CHL is that he makes Phoenix Wright-style assumptions about what "must" be a certain group's belief. He's not really debunking us, he's debunking his very own flat earth model
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 09:49:56 PM »
That's it Tom? The guy rips your world apart, and you come back with, well that crap map no longer stands, some other loony came up with another crap map, let's just ignore the rest?

The bi-polar model replaced the mono-pole model in the Flat Earth Society of the early 1900's (then called the Universal Zetetic Society). The author of Sea Earth Globe was the also primary editor of Earth Not a Globe Review, the Flat Earth research journal that continued Rowbotham's research. That society died off during World War I and subsequent reboots of the society were based on Rowbotham's original Earth Not a Globe. Few copies of Sea Earth Globe or ENAG Review were available. It is only relatively recently that those other works were found in an obscure section of a British library and digitized online.

Most people still use the old map, but that is just because they are unaware of the research that happened after Rowbotham.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 06:16:24 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 07:53:23 AM »
That's it Tom? The guy rips your world apart, and you come back with, well that crap map no longer stands, some other loony came up with another crap map, let's just ignore the rest?

The bi-polar model replaced the mono-pole model in the Flat Earth Society of the early 1900's (then called the Universal Zetetic Society). The author of Sea Earth Globe was the also primary editor of Earth Not a Globe Review, the Flat Earth research journal that continued Rowbotham's research. That society died off during World War I and subsequent reboots of the society were based on Rowbotham's original Earth Not a Globe. Few copies of Sea Earth Globe or ENAG Review were available. It is only relatively recently that those other works were found in an obscure section of a British library and digitized online.

Most people still use the old map, but that is just because they are unaware of the research that happened after Rowbotham.
Yes, so often we find some flat-earthers swearing black and blue that Antarctica is inaccessible, that we are stupid to talk about a South Pole and lying (yes, I have been accused of thst) to claim that we can see the rotation of stars about the South Celestial Pole.

Then when we try to give evidence for these things we again told not to be stupid, "That''s not the official map!"

There is no such thing as "The Flat Earth"! It seems as though there is a different flat earth model dragged out to suit the occasion!
I know of three or more "maps" (continental layouts) and three or more different explanations for gravity - though not on this site.

But how is any newcomer meant to sort this out? The Wiki says
Quote
Circumnavigation
The Flat Earth is laid out like a North-Azimuthal projection.
The North Pole is at the center while Antarctica is at the rim. The continents are spread out around the North Pole.

It really does seem a case of "Would the real flat earth please stand up!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Testing Flattards Part 2 - Cool Hard Logic
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2017, 06:22:47 PM »
Quote
Yes, so often we find some flat-earthers swearing black and blue that Antarctica is inaccessible, that we are stupid to talk about a South Pole and lying (yes, I have been accused of thst) to claim that we can see the rotation of stars about the South Celestial Pole.

Then when we try to give evidence for these things we again told not to be stupid, "That''s not the official map!"

There is no such thing as "The Flat Earth"! It seems as though there is a different flat earth model dragged out to suit the occasion!
I know of three or more "maps" (continental layouts) and three or more different explanations for gravity - though not on this site.

And if you ask four different physicists or physics teachers what causes Gravity you might be told by one that its a bending of space time, another that its a messenger particle, that it is a force of some kind, and yet another might tell you that we don't really know at all.

But how is any newcomer meant to sort this out? The Wiki says
Quote
Circumnavigation
The Flat Earth is laid out like a North-Azimuthal projection.
The North Pole is at the center while Antarctica is at the rim. The continents are spread out around the North Pole.

It really does seem a case of "Would the real flat earth please stand up!"

Since the article provides an accompanying illustration using the mono-pole model, it's clearly talking about circumnavigation on the mono-pole model. I see that article as useful for explaining some introductory concepts.

The Wiki doesn't hold any official model. Eventually it will contain separate explanations for the bi-polar model as well.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 06:30:00 PM by Tom Bishop »