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Offline Venus

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The "Conspiracy"
« on: January 10, 2017, 12:19:03 AM »
I've just noticed that the wiki "Conspiracy" page has been updated and now claims that NASA still does not know what shape the planet is, and they have never been to space.
All the "fake" space travel is because of the Cold War, and USA wanting to prove they had military dominance.
Check it out here ... https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy#Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

However ... as of November 6, 2013, a total of 536 people from 38 countries have gone into space according to the FAI guideline.
Of the 536, three people completed only a sub-orbital flight, 533 people reached Earth orbit, 24 traveled beyond low Earth orbit and 12 walked on the Moon.

Space travelers have spent over 29,000 person-days (or a cumulative total of over 77 years) in space including over 100 person-days of spacewalks.

Also 3 countries - USA, Russia and China have sent manned spacecraft into space.

Questions ...
1. What are Russia and China's reasons for "faking" space travel?
2. How do you account for the fact that 536 people from 38 countries are running around the world, doing interviews etc. Are all of these other countries in on the conspiracy too?
3. We have the technology, why do flat earthers continue to deny we have conquered space?
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 01:53:39 AM »
I've just noticed that the wiki "Conspiracy" page has been updated and now claims that NASA still does not know what shape the planet is, and they have never been to space.
All the "fake" space travel is because of the Cold War, and USA wanting to prove they had military dominance.
Check it out here ... https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy#Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

However ... as of November 6, 2013, a total of 536 people from 38 countries have gone into space according to the FAI guideline.
Of the 536, three people completed only a sub-orbital flight, 533 people reached Earth orbit, 24 traveled beyond low Earth orbit and 12 walked on the Moon.

Space travelers have spent over 29,000 person-days (or a cumulative total of over 77 years) in space including over 100 person-days of spacewalks.

Also 3 countries - USA, Russia and China have sent manned spacecraft into space.

Questions ...
1. What are Russia and China's reasons for "faking" space travel?
2. How do you account for the fact that 536 people from 38 countries are running around the world, doing interviews etc. Are all of these other countries in on the conspiracy too?
3. We have the technology, why do flat earthers continue to deny we have conquered space?

It means nothing to the FES! See
Quote from: TFES Wiki
The Conspiracy
The Conspiracy is the blanket term most commonly used by proponents of Zeteticism to refer to the active faking of space travel.

It is most often associated with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), its constituents and fellow so-called "space agencies" as well as those who are informed by them (including government). Though unknown exactly where or when the concept originated, earliest references have been attributed to the Flat Earth Society under the leadership of Samuel Shenton.

Motive of the Conspiracy
There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The motto "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was nothing more than a front.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation the general population already believed that the earth was round, based on the handed down teachings of the Ancient Greeks, which is why it was depicted in that manner. As with everyone else in the country, the people at NASA were taught the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

And in another section:
Quote from: TFES Wiki
Place of the Conspiracy in FET
The existence of 'The Conspiracy' is a consequence of the FET. Virtually no one begins with the conspiracy and develops a belief in the FET. A zetetic starts with the knowledge that the earth is flat, as they believe that all the evidence they are personally able to collect and verify confirms this. As a consequence they assume the evidence to the contrary, much of which they are unable to personally test/verify as being false. The existence of such a huge quantity of false information indicates the existence of the conspiracy.

Essentially the reasoning boils down to:
Quote
    P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
    P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth
    P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
    C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence
    P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
    P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.
Such  ;) wonderful reasoning!  ;)
"If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts 'The an obvious truth of a Flat Earth' then the evidence is fabricated".
"If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it", etc, etc.

Essentially this means that the Flat Earth Hypothesis is effectively unfalsifiable.

Just take a simple issue like the dimensions of the earth. That has been measured by geodetic surveyors and others over the centuries with quite consistent results.
But, it can hardly be personally verifiable because the earth is so large that it is outside the capability of one person or a small group.

I can personally verify the information in my locality - over a large part of Australia.

Now, I am sure that the members of TFES, being spread over the whole Globe, could band together and verify the dimensions of the Earth.
But, they have no incentive to do so, as I am certain that it would prove that the earth could not possible be flat.

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Offline Venus

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 04:52:05 AM »
The problem with this is that Astronomy and knowledge of a spherical earth existed a long long long time before NASA
To put it into perpective ...

I studied the History of Astronomy as part of my Undergraduate Science degree at University in the very early 1970's
Here's a brief summary ...
**Pythagoras first put forward his evidence for a spherical earth in 600 BC. There has never been a time since then that any scholar of any regard has refuted that we live on a spherical planet ?

**By 300BC it was common knowledge that the earth rotated to give day and night and the moon travelled around the earth once every 28 days, resulting in the phases of the moon.
At this time it was well known that 5 of the objects seen in the night sky were "planets" and not stars. Before this they were often called "wandering stars" because their path across the sky had been observed to have a retrograde motion.

**About 270BC Aristarchus calculated the distance to the moon and the size of the moon

**Aristarchus also believed that the sun was the centre of our solar system and even calculated the correct order of the visible planets. He also said that the stars were distant suns. This was not accepted at the time because religions and other Astronomers such as Ptolemy and Aristotle could not accept that anything other than the earth was the centre of the universe. (Man is such an egocentrical beast !!! lol)

**Eratosthenes worked out the circumference of the earth to within 10% about 250BC

**Around 150 BC Hipparchus discovered the precession of the equinoxes.

**In 1543 Copernicus published his book  De revolutionibus orbium coelestium which described a heliocentric solar system ie the sun at the centre and the earth and other planets travelling around the sun. This also perfectly explained the retrograde motion of the planets. He also had the visible planets in the correct order. The publication of this book was one of the most pivotal moments in Scientific History, as it set the scene for the establishment of The Scientific Method, and is now often referred to as "the Copernican Revolution"

**In 1608 Lippershey invented the telescope with a magnification of 3X

**In 1610 using a 20X refractor telescope Galileo discovered 4 of Jupiter's moons

**In 1761 astronomers who travelled to various parts of the world, calculated the distance to the sun using the transit of Venus across the sun, using information left by Hubble who knew he would not live long enough to be able to do this himself.

1781 Uranus is discovered
1846 Neptune is disovered
1930 Pluto is discovered

1958 NASA founded.

We also knew about comets, most of the larger moons of the other planets, how and why solar and lunar eclipses occur, eliptical orbits of the planets, Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's Laws of Relativity (In fact Einstein died in 1955)

WHAT conspiracy ?????

Why do flat earthers deny this history???
I studied the History of Astronomy as part of my Science Degree in 1973 but my lecturer was in his 70's by then and had been teaching this stuff for about 40 years ... WAY before NASA was founded in 1958 !!!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:55:35 AM by Venus »
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 12:15:54 PM »
I've just noticed that the wiki "Conspiracy" page has been updated
Has it? Looking at the edit history, this seems untrue.

1. What are Russia and China's reasons for "faking" space travel?
Same as NASA's. Funnelling funds from the government into their organisations. Exertion of international pressure.

2. How do you account for the fact that 536 people from 38 countries are running around the world, doing interviews etc. Are all of these other countries in on the conspiracy too?
It's hard to tell. Why don't you ask them? Personally, I'd happily give a few interviews over stuff I totally definitely did if they paid well.

3. We have the technology, why do flat earthers continue to deny we have conquered space?
"Conquered" space? Whoa there, buddy, even the most deluded RE believers just about believe that man managed to put his foot on the moon.

So, replacing "conquered space" with "been to space": Could you prove that we have the technology?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:22:26 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 12:37:11 PM »
The problem with this is that Astronomy and knowledge of a spherical earth existed a long long long time before NASA
To put it into perpective ...

I studied the History of Astronomy as part of my Undergraduate Science degree at University in the very early 1970's
Here's a brief summary ...
**Pythagoras first put forward his evidence for a spherical earth in 600 BC. There has never been a time since then that any scholar of any regard has refuted that we live on a spherical planet ?

I was simply trying to make the point that this "conspiracy" must have started back in the times of Aristotle, Plato, Pythagoras and Erosthanes.
And back to the on-topic stuff, yes indeed it seems like the conspiracy had to be dating back to the time of  Aristotle, Plato, Pythagoras, Erosthanes and probably some others. 

The orgins of globularism were in the beliefs of the Pythagorean number cult. Platonic schools grew from the same root. There was no conspiracy. It was simply a mistaken belief.

A proper conspiracy regarding the shape of the earth is comparatively modern.
Ski is pretty high in the other "The Flat Earth Society" (at The Flat Earth Society).  He just blames "globularism" on"simply a mistaken belief." Of course the "Platonic schools" did tend to  ::) like spheres, because they were "cool".  ::)

Quote from: Venus
**By 300BC it was common knowledge that the earth rotated to give day and night and the moon travelled around the earth once every 28 days, resulting in the phases of the moon.
At this time it was well known that 5 of the objects seen in the night sky were "planets" and not stars. Before this they were often called "wandering stars" because their path across the sky had been observed to have a retrograde motion.

**About 270BC Aristarchus calculated the distance to the moon and the size of the moon

**Aristarchus also believed that the sun was the centre of our solar system and even calculated the correct order of the visible planets. He also said that the stars were distant suns. This was not accepted at the time because religions and other Astronomers such as Ptolemy and Aristotle could not accept that anything other than the earth was the centre of the universe. (Man is such an egocentrical beast !!! lol)

**Eratosthenes worked out the circumference of the earth to within 10% about 250BC
Yes of course, they claim that Eratosthenes "assumed" that the earth was a Globe, and then claim that they can use Eratosthenes' figures to find the sun's height of the flat earth.
What the will not face, is Eratosthenes' figures (modernised to 7.2° and 800 km) outs the sun's height at 6,333 km, not 5,000 km as they claim.
The same method for 1° spacing puts the sun at 6,366 km (which happens to be the radius of the globe), and at 90° puts the sun on the ground.
The only consistent solution is a globe earth and a distant sun, but nobody will discuss it seriously.
I tried in The Sun's height from the method and distances in "the Wiki". « on: April 15, 2016, 01:58:07 AM »

Quote from: Venus
**Around 150 BC Hipparchus discovered the precession of the equinoxes.

Yes, they seem to ignore the fact that the Globe was the accepted shape right through history, not only in the early Western Church (look up the "Venerable Bede's" writing on the shape of the earth. He left no doubt. Even the early Islamic community seems to have taken over the early western scientific theories, with some very advanced work done by Al-Biruni. Just do a search. There's lots of info from both Western and Islamic sources.

Quote from: Venus
**In 1543 Copernicus published his book  De revolutionibus orbium coelestium which described a heliocentric solar system ie the sun at the centre and the earth and other planets travelling around the sun. This also perfectly explained the retrograde motion of the planets. He also had the visible planets in the correct order. The publication of this book was one of the most pivotal moments in Scientific History, as it set the scene for the establishment of The Scientific Method, and is now often referred to as "the Copernican Revolution"
Yes, Copernicus lead to a revolution, though his "model" didn't fit observations much better than Ptolemy's epi-cycles, etc because Copernicus, a bit like Plato,  liked perfect circles.

Then Tycho Brahe made his wonderfully accurate observations, especially as most used his unaided eye, but Brahe was still preferred a geocentric system and developed his Tycho nice System, with the sun orbiting the earth and the planets orbiting the sun.

Quote from: Venus
**In 1608 Lippershey invented the telescope with a magnification of 3X

**In 1610 using a 20X refractor telescope Galileo discovered 4 of Jupiter's moons
I am continually amazed at the work of Galileo (and others). Just imagine the painstaking record keeping needed before the days of photography.
His records apparently show that he observed Neptune as a moving object in 1612! See in New Theory: Galileo Discovered Neptune.

So it wasn't till Kepler's elliptical orbits and Newton's Laws finally giving them a theoretical basis that we can say that the modern picture of the so;ar system came to fruition.

Quote from: Venus
**In 1761 astronomers who travelled to various parts of the world, calculated the distance to the sun using the transit of Venus across the sun, using information left by Hubble who knew he would not live long enough to be able to do this himself.

1781 Uranus is discovered
1846 Neptune is disovered
1930 Pluto is discovered

1958 NASA founded.

We also knew about comets, most of the larger moons of the other planets, how and why solar and lunar eclipses occur, eliptical orbits of the planets, Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's Laws of Relativity (In fact Einstein died in 1955)

WHAT conspiracy ?????

Why do flat earthers deny this history???
I studied the History of Astronomy as part of my Science Degree in 1973 but my lecturer was in his 70's by then and had been teaching this stuff for about 40 years ... WAY before NASA was founded in 1958 !!!

You ask "WHAT conspiracy ?????"
This I believe is what they base it on,
"The Flat Earth is an obvious truth",
"If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts 'The an obvious truth of a Flat Earth' then the evidence is fabricated".
"If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it", etc, etc.  QED.

It all boils to their claiming "The Flat Earth is an obvious truth", with I believe insufficient evidence.

I do hope the school teacher won't put too many red-marks through this!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:18:40 AM by rabinoz »

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 12:48:42 PM »
Ski is pretty high in "The Flat Earth Society".
Please refrain from spreading lies. Ski is a member of another organisation, not this one. Thanks!
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 01:27:45 AM »
Ski is pretty high in "The Flat Earth Society".
Please refrain from spreading lies. Ski is a member of another organisation, not this one. Thanks!
I did no say "this one", I said "The Flat Earth Society" and Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society".

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 01:31:35 AM »
I did no say "this one", I said "The Flat Earth Society" and Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society".
Excellent. Edit your post to explain the distinction, apologise to the newbie you've potentially misled, and try not to do it again. I'm watching you, punk.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 03:23:33 AM »
I did no say "this one", I said "The Flat Earth Society" and Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society".
Excellent. Edit your post to explain the distinction, apologise to the newbie you've potentially misled, and try not to do it again. I'm watching you, punk.
Yes, I have apologised via a PM to the "newbie" involved, who I am sure is highly amused be all the fuss.

But, I do not take kindly to being called a liar nor a punk, when I am certainly not either, so:

Just get the fact that I did not lie and I did not set out to mislead! What I said was completely true Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society".

Had you started off in a reasonable manner with a simple request to amend the post, that would be that, no more fuss. But when you start with an accusation:
Please refrain from spreading lies. Ski is a member of another organisation, not this one. Thanks!
I simply fail to understand why it's such a big deal whether Ski is or is not a member. The issue in question is hardly a very contentious one.
In any case, there are numerous members of both societies: eg jroa, John Davis, Tom Bishop and I assume many more. What's the problem?

I felt I could hardly go into the details Q&A, but if I must:

I did not intend to make an issue of the two societies, but you have forced me into it.
The "Flat Earth Society" that uses the website "TheFlatEarthSociety.org" has been in operation for almost 12 years, much longer than
this "The Flat Earth Society that uses the website "tfes.org" which has been in operation, to the best of my knowledge, for less than 5 years.

It would seem then that "The Flat Earth Society" with prior claim to the name "The Flat Earth Society" is the "other one", not "this one", not that iy bothers me!
It seems strange that this society started up or split from the other (which, I do not know, nor care) then assumed that it could use the same name - if there's confusion it's not of my doing.

If you have a legal opinion as to why this is not so, just let's know, but in the mean time, it seems to be a simple fact.

I am quite content to let this matter stand. I have nothing against either society, but if you want to keep throwing you weight around I guess there's not much I can do.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 01:21:15 PM »
Yes, I have apologised via a PM to the "newbie" involved, who I am sure is highly amused be all the fuss.
Thanks. Here's hoping you won't need to do that again.

But, I do not take kindly to being called a liar nor a punk
Then stop being a lying punk.

I felt I could hardly go into the details Q&A, but if I must:
You already "went into the details" in S&C. If I can recommend an appropriate board, try Angry Ranting.

I have nothing against either society, but if you want to keep throwing you weight around I guess there's not much I can do.
You're really not one to talk.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 07:58:19 PM »
Then stop being a lying punk.
I suggest:
(1) That you take your own advice and "top being a lying punk". Try being a human being for a change, instead of always being totally obnoxious.

(2) Try angry ranting yourself, because your seen angry and suspicious all the time.

I still honestly understand why you would go through posts with such a fine-toothed come and single things like:
Quote
The orgins of globularism were in the beliefs of the Pythagorean number cult. Platonic schools grew from the same root. There was no conspiracy. It was simply a mistaken belief.
A proper conspiracy regarding the shape of the earth is comparatively modern.
Ski is pretty high in the other "The Flat Earth Society" (at The Flat Earth Society).

I know you will not believe me, but I was aiming at nothing more than point out others' ideas on the conspiracy.

But you jump in with your jackboots and turn an ant-hill into an Everest!

Are you really so unsure of your beliefs that you have to protect them in this way!

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2017, 09:41:59 PM »
Try being a human being for a change
Again, you're not one to talk :)

Try angry ranting yourself
Oh, please, I'm a regular there.

But you jump in with your jackboots and turn an ant-hill into an Everest!
What jackboots? What are you on about? I called you out on a lie. Fixing it was a simple task, but instead of doing it you decided to start making S&C threads and generally acting like a crybaby.

Are you really so unsure of your beliefs that you have to protect them in this way!
What do my beliefs have to do with Ski's beliefs? I merely don't want you misrepresenting our views to newbies.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 10:17:18 PM »
What jackboots? What are you on about? I called you out on a lie.

Just get the message, I did not lie Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society". That is an undeniable fact.
I did not set out to mislead anyone, least of all the supposed "newbie" who started the thread.

Quote from: SexWarrior
I merely don't want you misrepresenting our views to newbies.
I cannot guess where I was "misrepresenting our views". What was so incorrect in what Ski said anyway. Yes, I know that you never actually discuss substantive issues, so I won't expect an answer.

But if you "merely don't want you misrepresenting our views to newbies", you might have:
          (1) Ignored it, and no-one would have even noticed.
          (2) Asked politely, instead of wading in with immediate accusations of lying.

In either case, it would have passed unnoticed, but no, you have to blow the whole thing up.

I know very well who that "newbie" is. That "newbie" lives in Victoria, Australia, Southern Hemisphere and has been a member since March 30, 2016, so hardly a "newbie". But, I still apologised.

You might have read that "newbie's" signature:
Quote from: Venus
Signature:
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!
I don't think that "newbie" is going to be concerned with slight differences between "The Flat Earth Society" and "The Flat Earth Society".

But, now everybody is wondering why there seems to be such enmity between the two "The Flat Earth Societies". Your doing, not mine!

I never wanted that, but I do not take lightly to being called a "lying punk" especially by someone with such an obnoxious username and avatar.

So, just end this now! I would never expect an apology from such as you, so I won't ask for that.

Bye bye, have a nice day.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 10:28:51 PM »
Just get the message
Why would I? Your message is absolute bullshit.

I did not lie Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society". That is an undeniable fact.
Context matters, and you tried to abuse it. Didn't work.

I did not set out to mislead anyone, least of all the supposed "newbie" who started the thread.
Saying it over and over again won't make it any more true.

I cannot guess where I was "misrepresenting our views". What was so incorrect in what Ski said anyway.
Well, it's in no way similar to our position, for starters. But you've read the Wiki already, so you know this very well.

Yes, I know that you never actually discuss substantive issues
See, here you go again. Lying, bending the truth, stating falsities as "undeniable facts". I'm not surprised not many people want to talk about substantive issues to you.

But if you "merely don't want you misrepresenting our views to newbies", you might have:
          (1) Ignored it, and no-one would have even noticed.
No, that would give you the go-ahead to lie to people unchecked. That's the exact opposite of what I might have done.

          (2) Asked politely, instead of wading in with immediate accusations of lying.
Why would I? You and your friends have been doing this for ages. It's important to call you out. Whether or not it hurts your fragile feelings really doesn't concern me.

In either case, it would have passed unnoticed
Incorrect.

but no, you have to blow the whole thing up.
Nah, I wrote one short post asking you not to lie to people. You were the one who decided to dump a wall of text both in S&C and here to let everyone know how offended you were.

I know very well who that "newbie" is. That "newbie" lives in <location>
It may be worth to ask Venus to state his permission for you relaying his personal information on this forum. It's against the rules otherwise.

and has been a member since March 30, 2016
How long he's been here is of no significance. He's got 100 posts and all of them indicate that he doesn't have even a beginner level of understanding of what's going on here. Whether he's a slow learner or not, he's still a newbie.

But, I still apologised.
Thanks! That's (almost) all you needed to do instead of "blowing this whole thing up".

But, now everybody is wondering why there seems to be such enmity between the two "The Flat Earth Societies". Your doing, not mine!
What enmity? Pointing out that it's dishonest to conflate the groups has nothing to do with my (or anyone else's) feelings about the other site. It has everything to do with you being a lying punk.

I never wanted that, but I do not take lightly to being called a "lying punk" especially by someone with such an obnoxious username and avatar.
Have you tried not being a lying punk? I heard that helps. The fact that you lied even in this post certainly doesn't help your case.

So, just end this now!
Ladies first :-*
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 10:30:23 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 10:36:05 PM »

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 10:37:20 PM »
<< Utterly ridiculous rubbish >>
I'll accept that as a concession of defeat. Next time, don't try to misguide newbies.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2017, 06:48:08 AM »
<< Utterly ridiculous rubbish >>
I'll accept that as a concession of defeat. Next time, don't try to misguide newbies.
I did not concede defeat, I just scrubbed out your unfounded rubbish.

Just so that you understand my unshakable position.

(1) I "don't try to misguide newbies".
(2) What I stated was simply true. You know as well as I that Ski is a member of "The Flat Earth Society".
You might like to twist it and imply motive that was not there - that's your problem.

But I DID NOT LIE and I DID NOT SET OUT to misguide and Newbies.
I have amended the post, and have apologised to the "newbie", who has been a member for only 98 days less than I have - some newbie.

But as I have stated numerous times I do not appreciate being called a lying punk! So, when you apologise for that, we'll call it quits.

But, what on earth is so damning in my quote from Ski anyway. To me, it seemed quite innocuous. Had I similar quote from a member I'd have gladly used.
I don't see that much difference in the ideas about conspiracy between the two societies. Both seem to say essentially this:
Quote
    P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an
    obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
    P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth
    P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that
    contradicts the FET
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
    C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET
    is fabricated evidence
    P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then
    there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
    P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)
     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.

I still cannot comprehend why you ever made a big fuss over it in the first place. I do believe you said look in the Wik, but where?

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2017, 06:08:03 PM »
But as I have stated numerous times I do not appreciate being called a lying punk! So, when you apologise for that, we'll call it quits.
As I already said, I'll stop calling you a lying punk as soon as you stop being one. It doesn't matter to me whether or not your position is "unshakable" [sic].

Also, you lie again:

I would never expect an apology from such as you, so I won't ask for that.
So, when you apologise for that, we'll call it quits.
Naturally, you were right the first time: I've done nothing wrong, and therefore I will not apologise. You're the one with some apologising to do (which you claim to have done).

I don't see that much difference in the ideas about conspiracy between the two societies. Both seem to say essentially this:
Quote
    P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an
    obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
    P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth
    P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that
    contradicts the FET
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
    C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET
    is fabricated evidence
    P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then
    there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
    P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)
     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.
This is not even remotely close to the views of most people here. I won't speak for them, and personally I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theory.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2017, 10:05:37 PM »
But as I have stated numerous times I do not appreciate being called a lying punk! So, when you apologise for that, we'll call it quits.
As I already said, I'll stop calling you a lying punk as soon as you stop being one. It doesn't matter to me whether or not your position is "unshakable" [sic].
[sic]?
Quote
unshakable 
un·shak·a·ble  (ŭn-shā′kə-bəl)
adj.  Incapable of being shaken: unshakable faith.

Quote from: SexWarrior
Also, you lie again:
Exactly where have I ever lied?

Quote from: SexWarrior
I would never expect an apology from such as you, so I won't ask for that.
So, when you apologise for that, we'll call it quits.
Naturally, you were right the first time: I've done nothing wrong, and therefore I will not apologise. You're the one with some apologising to do (which you claim to have done).

I don't see that much difference in the ideas about conspiracy between the two societies. Both seem to say essentially this:
Quote
    P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an
    obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
    P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth
    P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that
    contradicts the FET
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
    C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET
    is fabricated evidence
    P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then
    there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
    P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)
     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.
This is not even remotely close to the views of most people here. I won't speak for them, and personally I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theory.
I did not claim that the quote was "even remotely close to the views of most people here". I got the quote on "Place of the Conspiracy in FET" from your own Wiki.

Whenever a question is asked, no answer is forthcoming but we are told to "Look up the Wiki", so I looked up the Wiki:
Quote from: The Flat Earth Wiki
Place of the Conspiracy in FET
    P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an
    obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
    P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth
    P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that
    contradicts the FET
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
    C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET
    is fabricated evidence
    P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then
    there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it
    P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)
     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.

From: The Flat Earth Wiki, Place of the Conspiracy in FET.
If we cannot learn the Society's from the Wiki, where can we learn them?

Now, that may not be your belief, that's your business and I've no beef with that, but the only information that we can get is fro "the Wiki".

I was not even arguing for or against any conspiracy, just trying to point out the societies' (plural) attitudes to it. In the quote I gave, Ski said that the ancient Greeks were not part of any conspiracy, but just "mistaken". What was the great harm it that? It seems close to Tom Bishop's attitude and even your own, if I interpret waht you say correctly.
So I still do not see where there was any harm at all in what I originally said!
Maybe you, or someone less involved, cam explain it. Because
          (1) I did not lie and
          (2) I still cannot see what was wrong with what I said.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 12:27:08 AM »
[sic]?
Yes.

Exactly where have I ever lied?
You know, if you didn't cut my quote short, you'd already know.

If we cannot learn the Society's from the Wiki, where can we learn them?
The larger, more actively maintained Wiki page, of course. The fact that you found an old relic of the past that slipped through the cracks is rather insignificant. I'll fix it when I have a moment, though.

          (1) I did not lie and
I mean, you did.

          (2) I still cannot see what was wrong with what I said.
I already explained. And you already admitted it. And you apologised. To pretend that you don't see it now is pointless.

Also, learn how to use the [li] tag. Your attempts at generating lists are appalling.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?