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Offline Parsifal

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Chicago racists torture disabled man
« on: January 05, 2017, 12:53:45 AM »
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/227116738-story

Quote
Chicago police were made aware of this video Tuesday afternoon. A young African American woman streamed the video live on Facebook showing at least four people holding a young white man hostage.

The victim is repeatedly kicked and hit, his scalp is cut, all while he is tied up with his mouth taped shut. The suspects on the video can be heard yelling, "F*** Donald Trump! F*** white people!"

As if that weren't bad enough, the man is also described as a "special-needs person" in CBS's coverage.

I don't know what's more sickening, the fact that this happened or the fact that it's being ignored (so far) by non-local mainstream news outlets after they've been publishing so much fake news about hate crimes instigated by Trump supporters.

If these are the kinds of people supporting Clinton, it looks like America dodged a bullet.
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Offline Parsifal

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 01:20:54 AM »
https://www.dangerandplay.com/2017/01/04/chicago-blacklivesmatter-supporters-kidnap-torture-trump-supporter-on-facebook-live-video/

Apparently these criminals are Black Lives Matter supporters, and they also forced the victim to drink toilet water. Just when I thought I'd heard enough.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 01:34:00 AM »
Black Lives Matter, the politically acceptable version of the Ku Klux Klan.

Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 02:28:55 AM »
"person x did action y, therefore characteristic z must be causally related."

excellent reasoning 10/10 would infer again
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Offline Parsifal

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 02:50:05 AM »
"person x did action y, therefore characteristic z must be causally related."

excellent reasoning 10/10 would infer again

What are you referring to, specifically? Given how much they were yelling "fuck Trump" and "fuck white people", it seems very likely to be politically and racially motivated.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 03:10:30 AM »
What are you referring to, specifically? Given how much they were yelling "fuck Trump" and "fuck white people", it seems very likely to be politically and racially motivated.

whether or not their actions were politically or racially motivated doesn't indicate a causal relationship between their actions and their politics/race.

example: i feel politically disenfranchised, and i'm really angry about it.  my anger and resentment cause me to want to join a group that advocates my political enfranchisement.  my anger and resentment also cause me to commit a hate crime against object of my resentment.  joining a group that advocates my political enfranchisement didn't cause me to commit a hate crime against the object of my resentment.  they both had the same underlying cause: i'm angry and resentful.

it's not any different for hate crimes perpetrated by members of the political right.  that a trump supporter harms an immigrant and yells #MAGA while doing it doesn't indicate that the act and the belief are causally related.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 05:15:34 AM »
  that a trump supporter harms an immigrant and yells #MAGA while doing it doesn't indicate that the act and the belief are causally related.
On a technicality, sure. However, there is ample social (and legal, in case of the right wing) precedent for accepting that causal relation is extremely likely in this case. If we took your approach, the only way for someone to be convicted of a hate crime would be if they outright shouted "I am assaulting you because of your characteristic x, of which I greatly disapprove and thus I chose to discriminate against you"
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 07:01:29 AM »
  that a trump supporter harms an immigrant and yells #MAGA while doing it doesn't indicate that the act and the belief are causally related.
On a technicality, sure. However, there is ample social (and legal, in case of the right wing) precedent for accepting that causal relation is extremely likely in this case. If we took your approach, the only way for someone to be convicted of a hate crime would be if they outright shouted "I am assaulting you because of your characteristic x, of which I greatly disapprove and thus I chose to discriminate against you"

although i'm not especially in love with hate crime legislation, i completely agree that these crimes merit zealous prosecution; and, if they meet the legal requirements for hate crimes, then i'd agree with that charge, too.

i take the op to be a continuation of the narrative that movements like BLM are in some way ideologically connected to the use of violence.  that's the only point i take any issue with.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 01:54:38 PM »
Any credible argument I have seen comparing BLM to KKK has been making a de facto comparison. Whatever their ideologies, the expression has been uncomfortably similar.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 02:13:31 PM »
Any credible argument I have seen comparing BLM to KKK has been making a de facto comparison. Whatever their ideologies, the expression has been uncomfortably similar.

Not really, the KKK never had a habit of destroying their own cities

Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 03:30:24 PM »
evidently they don't teach much reconstruction era american history in canada or finland.
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Offline junker

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Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 04:30:44 PM »
It's cool guys the police have said it wasn't because he was white, but because he was disabled. And we all know the quality and integrity of the CPD, so nothing to see here...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-police-race-motive-video-attack-44570046
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 05:23:35 PM »
It's cool guys the police have said it wasn't because he was white, but because he was disabled. And we all know the quality and integrity of the CPD, so nothing to see here...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-police-race-motive-video-attack-44570046

I suspect it's mostly because the hate laws aren't written to include hate against white and as such, they couldn't legally say it was a hate crime against a white man.  But that's just my speculation.


Also, those people are horrible and should be brought down by the full force of the law.

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 05:33:39 PM »
i take the op to be a continuation of the narrative that movements like BLM are in some way ideologically connected to the use of violence.  that's the only point i take any issue with.
I wouldn't say they're ideologically connected, but there appears to be a strong correlation between being a black BLM supporter and beating the shit out of white people while chanting racist slurs. It's just another version of the #NotAllMen debate, except this time the men are explicitly black, which seemingly makes the mainstream narrative lean in the opposite direction.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2017, 05:44:27 PM »
evidently they don't teach much reconstruction era american history in canada or finland.

Are you suggesting my education and what I'm saying are causally related??

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Offline Parsifal

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2017, 07:13:57 PM »


Good, if somewhat ranty, overview of the media's hypocrisy.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2017, 07:32:07 PM »
there appears to be a strong correlation between being a black BLM supporter and beating the shit out of white people while chanting racist slurs.
either you and i have vastly different understandings of the meaning of "strong correlation," or you are merely ignoring that the overwhelming majority of blm supporters never use violence to achieve their political ends.

Are you suggesting my education and what I'm saying are causally related??
if you're saying that the blm even remotely resembles the kkk, then yeah, i can't imagine you're very well-educated on reconstruction or the history of the kkk.

the kkk is more akin to al-qaeda.  they were organizationally and operationally devoted to using terror and violence to drive black folks out of the south and reclaim southern politics for white people.  explicitly.  they assassinated black political leaders.  they publicly and savagely butchered literally thousands of black southern freedmen.  in pubic.  with the consent of law enforcement.  they burned people alive, lynched them to death, hanged them in public squares, etc.  there are hundreds of accounts of southern freedmen being hanged or lynched for offenses as trivial as failing to tip his cap to a white man.  that shit happened.  to compare that to blm is completely facile.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2017, 07:40:56 PM »
i take the op to be a continuation of the narrative that movements like BLM are in some way ideologically connected to the use of violence.  that's the only point i take any issue with.
I wouldn't say they're ideologically connected, but there appears to be a strong correlation between being a black BLM supporter and beating the shit out of white people while chanting racist slurs. It's just another version of the #NotAllMen debate, except this time the men are explicitly black, which seemingly makes the mainstream narrative lean in the opposite direction.
What are the requirements for joining BLM?  Is there any filter to prevent undesirables?

So... apparently there is!  You have to sign up and become a member.
Are these people members?
Were they kicked out?
Does BLM condone their actions?


It's easy enough to yell "Black Lives Matter!" while curb stomping a white dude.  Doesn't mean they are even part of the organization. 

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Offline Parsifal

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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2017, 07:49:40 PM »
I haven't seen a single Black Lives Matter activist condemn what happened. In fact, only one black person I follow on Twitter has spoken about it at all, despite my feed filling up with stupid whinging every time a white cop shoots a black criminal.

The political left's silence on this speaks volumes.
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Re: Chicago racists torture disabled man
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2017, 08:23:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/BLMChi/status/817064657513017344

https://www.facebook.com/blacklivesmatterchi/posts/1847410538881888
Quote
What happened to the young man who was held captive and tortured is terrible and we condemn the violence that was perpetrated against him. We've stated time and time again, that we're against all types of harm and violence perpetrated and we've never condoned it.
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