[Boots]

With the "shadow object" so small, it is quite impossible for the it to cast any significant shadow on the moon. Almost all of the sunlight will shine around it.

Please explain how and why sunlight would "shine around it" in space.

Here is an experiment you can observe. Get a spotlight with a 3" face. Draw a 3" circle on the wall. Position the light so it is fully illuminating the circle on the wall. Try to block all the light from reaching the circle with a quarter. Or your thumb. You can block some of the light but certainly not all of it. If the center of your beam is aimed directly at the circle you can hardly even notice the effect of the quarter or thumb no matter where you place it.

If you had a spotlight and a quarter you could position the quarter to where it is making a shadow with a much larger diameter than the quarter.

In space there is no atmosphere to reflect or diffuse light, and so blur would not occur.

I want to pursue this a little farther. I actually did the experiment and got exactly the results posted above. (BTW If I had gotten different results I would gladly have posted them and challenged Rab to explain why I got results that were inconsistent with his claim. If I have a bias it is toward finding out how things really work. And you can't do that by posting false results just to prove a point.) Anyway, I did the experiment, so I can confirm first hand what the results of the experiment were. And I know you accept first hand observations as evidence because:

First hand observations are evidence.

So it appears to me the only issue here is your claim that in space you would get a different result because "there is no atmosphere to reflect or diffuse light." If I had access to a vacuum chamber I would test this immediately. I am not able to do that, at least not yet. However, I want to confirm that if the same experiment were done in a vacuum and produced the same results, you would agree that "With the "shadow object" so small, it is quite impossible for the it to cast any significant shadow on the moon. Almost all of the sunlight will shine around it."If you have other objections that is fine. I would just like to know what they are before proceeding.

Tom?

What am I replying to? Your post makes no sense at all on what experiment you performed and what you found.

Hi. I'm still wondering why my post makes no sense at all on what experiment I performed and what I found. Would you be able to clear this up for me?

Also, could we confirm that you believe the sun only emits light at or near 90 degrees from its surface?

[Tom Bishop]

You have to explain what experiment you performed. I don't know what I am replying to to. In your last quote tier there are two experiments mentioned, one that you told me to do and one that I told you to do.

[Boots]

You have to explain what experiment you performed. I don't know what I am replying to to. In your last quote tier there are two experiments mentioned, one that you told me to do and one that I told you to do.

OK thanks for clarifying that. I felt I had done both experiments at the same time. But your post inspired me to redo them with some minor changes. I redid the spotlight experiment but then it occurred to me that it would be more realistic to use a round 100W light bulb so I did that too.

Here is what I did with the spotlight:

I used a spotlight with a 75mm face. I drew a 75mm circle on the wall. I positioned the light so it was fully illuminating the circle on the wall. I then tried to place a quarter to where it was blocking the light from reaching the circle on the wall. In the same experiment I also used a spotlight and a quarter and tried to position the quarter to where it was making a shadow with a much larger diameter than the quarter.

Results from the spotlight experiment:

If the center of the beam was aimed directly at the circle I could hardly even notice the effect of the quarter no matter where I placed it as long as I stayed closer to the spotlight. I was able to get a shadow by moving the quarter toward the circle on the wall. It first appears as a dot and gradually grows larger as you move it toward the wall. By the time you reach the wall the shadow is predictably almost identical in size to the quarter. I was able to get the shadow puppet effect under two conditions. One was when blocking much more of the light then was possible with a quarter. The other was when I aimed the spotlight away from the circle on the wall but in such a way that it was still being faintly illuminated by the peripheral light. This is the only condition under which I was able to use a quarter to create a shadow as large as the circle on the wall.


Here is what I did with the 100W light bulb:

I used a 100W light bulb about 55 mm in diameter. I drew a 55 mm circle on the wall. I positioned the light so that the circle on the wall was fully illuminated. I then tried to place a penny to where it was blocking the light from reaching the circle on the wall. In the same experiment I also used a 100W light bulb and a penny and tried to position the penny to where it was making a shadow with a much larger diameter than the penny.

Results from the 100W light bulb experiment:

When placing the penny between the light bulb and the circle on the wall but right next to the light bulb there was no discernible shadow. I was able to get a shadow by moving the penny toward the circle on the wall. When the shadow first became discernible, it was about the size of the 55 mm circle but it was very faint  . As I moved the penny toward the wall the shadow became smaller and clearer until it was about the size of the penny. It was still quite blurry though. As I continued to move the penny toward the wall, it remained the same size but gradually became clearer until it reached the wall where it was a clean crisp shadow about the size of the penny. I was able to get the shadow puppet effect using the penny but only very faintly. I was also able to get the shadow puppet effect when blocking much more of the light then was possible with a penny.


From this experiment I conclude that the shadow object described in the wiki is able to block some of the sun's light from reaching the moon but certainly not all of it, unless the vacuum of space causes light to behave differently. So, I want to confirm that if these same experiments were done in a vacuum and produced the same results, you would agree that "With the "shadow object" so small, it is quite impossible for it to cast any significant shadow on the moon. Almost all of the sunlight will shine around it." If you have other objections that is fine. I would just like to know what they are before proceeding.

[rabinoz]

You have to explain what experiment you performed. I don't know what I am replying to to. In your last quote tier there are two experiments mentioned, one that you told me to do and one that I told you to do.

I see no need for any experiment.

The sun (Flat or Globe earth) in not a point source, if it were we would see a point of light.  It has an angular size of a bit over half a degree.
We see it as

Time		Ang Size
12:00		0.56°

Light reaches us every part of the solar disc, so would you please explain what is wrong the diagram Boots posted in the other thread,

Here is a sketch I made very quickly. I think it demonstrates how ineffective a 5 to 10 mile diameter Shadow Object would be at blocking all the light from a 32 mile diameter sun from reaching a 32 mile diameter moon.

[Jura-Glenlivet]

To add to Boot's and Rabs excellent diagrams I would like to add my own to see if they can further underline the point they make.

In Fig. 1 we have a 3d representation of the system, on the perspective view we see from behind the sun and it seems to bear out that the moon is obscured.



however a slight shift of view proves this not to be the case



Here, still behind the sun we can now see the moon, the light from the outer edges will still reach it.
Finally.



From the moons point of view (and rendered) we can see that the small disc will never occult the sun, I, just for the hell of it placed the "dark disc all along the trajectory between the moon and sun and at no point was the sun obscured, case closed.

[Rekt]

With the "shadow object" so small, it is quite impossible for the it to cast any significant shadow on the moon. Almost all of the sunlight will shine around it.

Please explain how and why sunlight would "shine around it" in space.

Here is an experiment you can observe. Get a spotlight with a 3" face. Draw a 3" circle on the wall. Position the light so it is fully illuminating the circle on the wall. Try to block all the light from reaching the circle with a quarter. Or your thumb. You can block some of the light but certainly not all of it. If the center of your beam is aimed directly at the circle you can hardly even notice the effect of the quarter or thumb no matter where you place it.

Don't feed them like this. Small-scale experiments such as a spinning wet tennis ball are what started all this flat earth shit

[Tom Bishop]

Just an ides.

If you put that "shadow object" almost on or very close to the surface of the moon, you might get a shadow about the size of the "shadow object."

But if the sun is a spot light and just shines down on the earth , how is the sun going to shine on the moon ?

Seems as if one flat earth idea cancels out the other.

Looks like the moonshrimp idea was better. LOL.

Here's an idea: Read the Wiki, because it says that the sun shines light in all directions. The duration of light is  limited by perspective and opacity of the atmosphere.

Sun shines in all directions ? What happened to the spotlight ?

The light creates a spot of light upon the earth, a spotlight. The sun isn't a literal spotlight.

[TotesNotReptilian]

Just an ides.

If you put that "shadow object" almost on or very close to the surface of the moon, you might get a shadow about the size of the "shadow object."

But if the sun is a spot light and just shines down on the earth , how is the sun going to shine on the moon ?

Seems as if one flat earth idea cancels out the other.

Looks like the moonshrimp idea was better. LOL.

Here's an idea: Read the Wiki, because it says that the sun shines light in all directions. The duration of light is  limited by perspective and opacity of the atmosphere.

Sun shines in all directions ? What happened to the spotlight ?

The light creates a spot of light upon the earth, a spotlight. The sun isn't a literal spotlight.

I'm confused. So does it shine in all directions or not? If it does, then why does it illuminate the earth like a spotlight?

Also, it's been a while since you have been on the debate section. Welcome back! Fun fact: you posted in the debate section the same day this post pointing out errors in your experiment finally got pushed off the front page. I'm sure it's just a coincidence though...

[rabinoz]

Just an ides.

If you put that "shadow object" almost on or very close to the surface of the moon, you might get a shadow about the size of the "shadow object."

But if the sun is a spot light and just shines down on the earth , how is the sun going to shine on the moon ?

Seems as if one flat earth idea cancels out the other.

Looks like the moonshrimp idea was better. LOL.

Here's an idea: Read the Wiki, because it says that the sun shines light in all directions. The duration of light is  limited by perspective and opacity of the atmosphere.

Sun shines in all directions ? What happened to the spotlight ?

The light creates a spot of light upon the earth, a spotlight. The sun isn't a literal spotlight.

Maybe, but nothing yet explains how the shadow object can possible shade the whole moon.

The claim in the OP is "The Shadow Object Explanation of a Lunar Eclipse is Impossible!"