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Misconception: Earth's rotation cannot be detected
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2016, 04:00:55 AM »
Fact remains, there have been ZERO experiments PROVING the Earth is in motion...

Incorrect.  Ring Laser Gyroscopes are sensitive enough to detect the earth's rotation.  Here's an example in Germany that is so sensitive they have to compensate for movement of the underlying geology.  Stepping up to the largest RLG in the world, operating in Australia, they have enough sensitivity to detect not only the rotation, but even the wobble in that rotation caused by the moon.  (Currently out of service due to recent earthquakes)

Prefer to do your own experiments?  Good for you, highly encouraged, and there is good news: the effect that is exploited by those million-dollar instruments, known as the Sagnac Effect (named for a French physicist who first demonstrated it in 1913) is within reach of hobby-level equipment in the form of the fiber optic gyroscope!  Here's a guy who built such a device, a 1km fiber loop that is sensitive enough to detect the earth's rotation.
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[topic] The South Celestial Pole
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2016, 10:55:02 PM »
I. The Facts
II. Round Earth Explanation
III. Flat Earth Explanation

I. The Facts

1. Facing North, stars circle around a single point in the sky. This is called the North Celestial Pole.
2. Facing South, stars circle a different point in the sky. This is called the South Celestial Pole.
3. In the Northern Hemisphere, the North Celestial Pole is above the horizon, and the South Celestial Pole is an equal distance below* the horizon.
4. In the Southern Hemisphere, the South Celestial Pole is above the horizon, and the North Celestial Pole is an equal distance below* the horizon.
5. The North Celestial Pole is due north. The South Celestial Pole is due south. They are in exactly opposite directions from one another.



Here are both celestial poles in one image. North Celestial Pole is on the left above the horizon. South Celestial Pole is on the right, below the horizon. Forgive the distortion, it's a panoramic image:



* Obviously we can't actually see the celestial pole that is below the horizon. However, we can approximate it's position by extrapolating the paths of the stars.

II. Round Earth Explanation

The earth is a rotating sphere. From our perspective, the stars appear to be rotating around us. The elevation of each celestial pole depends on your location on the earth.

At 30 degrees north of the equator, the North Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees above the horizon and the South Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees below the horizon. Likewise, at 30 degrees south of the equator, the South Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees above the horizon and the North Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees below the horizon.



You can confirm for yourself that the elevation of each celestial pole corresponds exactly with your own latitude.

III. Flat Earth Explanation

Obviously, the visibility of the South Celestial Pole presents a problem for the flat earth model. If the stars are all rotating around a vertical axis, then the South Celestial Pole should be below the earth. In order to see it, one would have to peek over the edge. "Celestial Gears" are the most common solution to this problem that I have seen. I have never seen a particularly detailed explanation of how they work, but I assume it is something like this:



However, this still presents some problems.

1. There has never been a report of anyone seeing an intersection between the various South Celestial Poles. Considering that mankind has been navigating the oceans by the stars for several hundred years, this seems unlikely.
2. The South Celestial Pole is always exactly due South. It is always 180 degrees in the opposite direction of North. In the "Celestial Gears" model, moving east or west would cause the South Celestial Pole to no longer be due South. There would be a non 180 degree angle between the North Celestial Pole and South Celestial Pole.



The Bipolar Model has the exact same problem.

In conclusion, the visibility of the South Celestial Pole is in direct contradiction with the flat earth model. The earth isn't flat.

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Misconception: Horizon is always at eye level
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2016, 11:43:16 PM »
An oft repeated "fact" is that no matter how high up you go, the horizon is always at eye level, which (so the story goes) would prove that the earth is flat.  Yesterday I took the photo below from an airplane at 36,000 feet altitude, using the free Dioptra theodolite app on a Nexus 6P phone.  Ignore the Lat/Long and Altitude data: the phone is in airplane mode and the last GPS fix it had was the Atlanta airport.  The pitch, roll, and compass sensors do not rely on GPS, so they work in airplane mode.  I leveled the phone as well as I could, within a degree of left-to-right roll and only 1/10 of a degree below level front-to-back.  As you can see, there is plenty of blue sky BELOW the dead-level position we are told to expect the horizon to be.  To the naked eye, the horizon LOOKS like it's at eye level, yes.  To an instrument, it measures at about 1 degree below eye level.  I don't have a photo with the theodolite's horizon matched up to the earth's horizon because the entire flight was over land (not likely to be level) and there were scattered clouds at every point that I took a look (obscuring the earth's horizon from view).
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[comment] Misconception: Horizon is always at eye level
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2016, 05:02:11 AM »
An oft repeated "fact" is that no matter how high up you go, the horizon is always at eye level, which (so the story goes) would prove that the earth is flat.  Yesterday I took the photo below from an airplane at 36,000 feet altitude, using the free Dioptra theodolite app on a Nexus 6P phone.  Ignore the Lat/Long and Altitude data: the phone is in airplane mode and the last GPS fix it had was the Atlanta airport.  The pitch, roll, and compass sensors do not rely on GPS, so they work in airplane mode.  I leveled the phone as well as I could, within a degree of left-to-right roll and only 1/10 of a degree below level front-to-back.  As you can see, there is plenty of blue sky BELOW the dead-level position we are told to expect the horizon to be.  To the naked eye, the horizon LOOKS like it's at eye level, yes.  To an instrument, it measures at about 1 degree below eye level.  I don't have a photo with the theodolite's horizon matched up to the earth's horizon because the entire flight was over land (not likely to be level) and there were scattered clouds at every point that I took a look (obscuring the earth's horizon from view).


Your photo doesn't seem to be showing up. Following the URL asks me for a google login. Perhaps it's a private photo?

Also, I'm not too inclined to trust a theodolite smart phone app, especially one that was possibly calibrated in a turbulent airplane. I'm going to hold off linking to this one until the evidence is more reliable.

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Re: [comment] Misconception: Horizon is always at eye level
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2016, 05:22:08 AM »
Your photo doesn't seem to be showing up. Following the URL asks me for a google login. Perhaps it's a private photo?
Thanks, I'll check when I'm in front of my computer again.

Also, I'm not too inclined to trust a theodolite smart phone app, especially one that was possibly calibrated in a turbulent airplane. I'm going to hold off linking to this one until the evidence is more reliable.
Fair enough.  (Although of course I did my horizon zero in the airport terminal on a flat surface, not in flight)
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Re: Round Earth Information Repository
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2017, 08:33:18 PM »
Someone asked me repost a discussion about flight times I had with Tom Bishop on here, but it is simpler to just link to the other post. The discussion starts at the bottom of page one of this thread: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5888.0


[comment] Re: Round Earth Information Repository
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 11:52:21 PM »
Someone asked me repost a discussion about flight times I had with Tom Bishop on here, but it is simpler to just link to the other post. The discussion starts at the bottom of page one of this thread: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5888.0

I added a link to this thread in the "Informative Forum Threads" section. Thanks for the contribution!