Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2016, 06:27:59 AM »
Wow, ranma got him to delete his account.


Congrats, man.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2016, 07:33:38 AM »

Yes, but at the expense of his immortal soul, what a guy!
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2016, 12:26:45 PM »
Wow, ranma got him to delete his account.


Congrats, man.

The best was all I had to do was be honest....


Yes, but at the expense of his immortal soul, what a guy!

...and this.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2016, 05:26:34 AM »

Note that not one single description of the LLR experiments mentions taking this distance offset into account.

But lets go ahead and pretend they do and the laser is aimed ahead with the appropriate offset.

There is still a problem. A BIG and insurmountable problem!




Beam Spread

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2016, 01:48:16 PM »
This party has been over for a while.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2016, 09:00:23 AM »
This party has been over for a while.
I know the party's long over, the guests gone home and all the "dead marines" recycled long ago,

but, while I firmly believe that the laser reflectors on the moon are real, I think Setec Astronomy was not that far wrong.


Note that not one single description of the LLR experiments mentions taking this distance offset into account.

But lets go ahead and pretend they do and the laser is aimed ahead with the appropriate offset.

There is still a problem. A BIG and insurmountable problem!


No, probably no "BIG and insurmountable problem!"

I think that he was on the right track with his arguments in
To return to the subject, the LLR is a proven LIE and HOAX because the incident light returned by a corner cube array will be ~75 km off from the location it was emitted from 2.5 seconds earlier because earth's orbital velocity is 30 km per second.



The absence of any meaningful criticism relating to this point is an excellent indicator that the LLR experiment is indeed a total LIE and HOAX.

I hope this is a "meaningful criticism relating to this point"!

In his diagram he shows the moon in the "full moon" position, but in performing the experiment the aim was to have both the moon and the observatory in shade to avoid unnecessary extraneous light.

Now the best time for this is probably at 25% or 75% moon phase, where the moon is aligned with the the earth's orbit around the sun.
At these points half the moon we see is in shade, and the observatory can be in shade.

Now the only velocity to consider is from the earth's rotation, about 400 m/'s at 30°N, so no problem.

I have not seen this point discused,  and I might be completely wrong - would be the time.



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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2016, 11:45:17 AM »
I think that is what I contended, that Earth's orbital velocity is irrelevant.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Offline Rekt

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2017, 02:05:45 PM »
Welp, just to add, the reflector is angled. Did you account for THAT in your calculations? It's not going to be a straight shot.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2017, 03:37:49 PM »
With corner reflectors the angle of incidence doesn't matter. The incidence and reflection angles are identical. So, yes I did think about that.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Offline Rekt

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2017, 04:44:20 PM »
With corner reflectors the angle of incidence doesn't matter. The incidence and reflection angles are identical. So, yes I did think about that.
I know. I'm just adding some info to the debate that may not have been considered. Great to see that you did. Although there is the fact that there is a lot of scattered light reflecting off the moon, it might change the strength of the reflected light. Your receiver may also get some sun reflection from the LRR

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2017, 07:11:30 PM »
With corner reflectors the angle of incidence doesn't matter. The incidence and reflection angles are identical. So, yes I did think about that.
I know. I'm just adding some info to the debate that may not have been considered. Great to see that you did. Although there is the fact that there is a lot of scattered light reflecting off the moon, it might change the strength of the reflected light. Your receiver may also get some sun reflection from the LRR

If I were taking the readings, then I would take a baseline reading and then measure the jump in intensity.  Afterwards, you would want to rule out any other possible noise sources, like solar flare or something like that.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Offline Rekt

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2017, 12:15:00 AM »
With corner reflectors the angle of incidence doesn't matter. The incidence and reflection angles are identical. So, yes I did think about that.
I know. I'm just adding some info to the debate that may not have been considered. Great to see that you did. Although there is the fact that there is a lot of scattered light reflecting off the moon, it might change the strength of the reflected light. Your receiver may also get some sun reflection from the LRR

If I were taking the readings, then I would take a baseline reading and then measure the jump in intensity.  Afterwards, you would want to rule out any other possible noise sources, like solar flare or something like that.
Yep. But "Muh conspiracies"e

Offline tete

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2017, 11:30:34 PM »
When you understand these two points ... you understand why the laser beam comes back to earth

(1) I am sure you are aware that the moon does rotate. (Its rotation happens to be 27.32 days, and its orbit around Earth is 27 days)
and that
(2) We, from Earth, see the same side of the moon all the time.

"Sychronous Rotation" is one of the things that makes our moon so special. The moon's rate of rotation nearly matches its orbital period. This amazing fact means as it rotates around Earth, it too is rotating just fast enough to keep its "Face" facing earth. You might have heard of the Dark side of the Moon and that we never see it. Well its true we have never seen the Dark side of the Moon from Earth, the First Time was the Apollo Missions and their pictures they recorded.

http://www.space.com/24871-does-the-moon-rotate.html
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/dec/2-ask-discover
https://www.universetoday.com/19699/does-the-moon-rotate/

This is why a laser beam shot at the moon comes straight back because the moon is always facing us.
or Google it ... nice try though

Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2017, 07:52:49 AM »
hi Rama Set,

Sagnac & Michelson Morley 's experiments have proven that the light is indipendent from the inerzial system where it's traleving through refuting the einstein's special relativity theory therefore the Setec Astronomy's questions are absolutelly legits. congrats ;-)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 07:56:43 AM by kromeader »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2017, 11:58:45 AM »
hi Rama Set,

Sagnac & Michelson Morley 's experiments have proven that the light is indipendent from the inerzial system where it's traleving through refuting the einstein's special relativity theory therefore the Setec Astronomy's questions are absolutelly legits. congrats ;-)

You can't spell "inertial", so I am not sure why I should take your word for this. I consulted actual physicists on the topic.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2017, 12:29:54 PM »
You can't spell "inertial", so I am not sure why I should take your word for this.

Yes it's Latin... the language of science..  as you know :-X

I consulted actual physicists on the topic.

then WHY they refuse to correct or erase this public topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagnac_effect

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2017, 12:40:13 PM »
You can't spell "inertial", so I am not sure why I should take your word for this.

Yes it's Latin... the language of science..  as you know :-X

Not for a few hundred years, but carry on.

Quote
I consulted actual physicists on the topic.

then WHY they refuse to correct or erase this public topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagnac_effect

Oh Wikipedia! Now I'm definitely ignoring the actual physicists I consulted.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #97 on: June 15, 2017, 07:06:15 PM »
Oh Wikipedia! Now I'm definitely ignoring the actual physicists I consulted.

So you and your "actual physicists" prefer ignorance spreads rather than intervening .. wonderful LoL

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #98 on: June 15, 2017, 07:14:28 PM »
Oh Wikipedia! Now I'm definitely ignoring the actual physicists I consulted.

So you and your "actual physicists" prefer ignorance spreads rather than intervening .. wonderful LoL

Just because you believe SR has been falsified by a misinterpretation of the Sagnac effect and a one-time, never reproducible result in the Michaelson-Morley experiment, doesn't make you correct.

But please tell me more about how SR has been falsified.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: "Lunar Laser Ranging" (LLR) is a LIE and HOAX - The Simple PROOF
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2017, 08:16:12 AM »
But please tell me more about how SR has been falsified.

In the aforesaid link you have everything you need