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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
« on: March 25, 2016, 07:16:00 AM »
أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا (36) وَلَا تَمْشِ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحًا ۖ إِنَّكَ لَن تَخْرِقَ الْأَرْضَ وَلَن تَبْلُغَ الْجِبَالَ طُولًا (37) كُلُّ ذَٰلِكَ كَانَ سَيِّئُهُ عِندَ رَبِّكَ مَكْرُوهًا (38)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 01:46:01 PM by Mohamad Barakat »

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Offline Oscar

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 09:07:52 PM »
Welcome. It's interesting to hear about the Flat Earth from an Islamic perspective.

Have you seen that classic piece of Iraqi television in which a humble astronomer takes on a so-called "physicist" and deconstructs his globularist propaganda live on air? At one point, the physicist holds up a science textbook as if he's hoping it will protect him from the onslaught of sheer truth. :)


Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 02:56:18 AM »
Hello Mohamad, welcome to the forums. Thank you for posting the information from the Quran relating to the creation of the Earth. I began reading it years ago and found it pretty much identical to the Torah and what Christians call the first Testament of The Holy Bible. It is interesting to me to see others who have come to contemplate flat earth through spiritual means. If you look into the index of this subforum you will see a thread of mine dealing with Intelligent Design and the Flat Earth. It raises the question as to why, among the large portion of society that believes in God, most fully believe in a spherical Earth even though it is incompatible with what religions have taught for thousands of years.

You will find the Flat Earth Society very disinterested in exploring this avenue. They prefer to try to coexist with modern science, eventhough that is about as likely as creationism coexisting with evolution. Many here are very attached to their worldview. My personal stance is that through logic and reason, we can eliminate evolution and the big bang as the cause of our being. The probabilities that time alone somehow organized the 60,000 proteins found in even a single cell organism are astronomical. The third law of thermodynamics states that things are more likely to become more chaotic over time, not achieve any meaningful order. The complexities that define higher forms of life, and the planet Earth itself, in my opinion, show more than enough evidence of intelligent design.

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Offline hicham9

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The Qurān & Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 08:28:42 PM »
Indeed :)

The Qurān explicitly delineates a flat non-rotating Earth.
In fact, the textus confutes Helios-centrism on many occasions !


افلا ينظرون ... الى الارض كيف سطحت
Do they not then look/gaze — at the Earth, how was it flattened ?

The Honourable Qurān is the most misunderstood book in the world.
FE is but one droplet in it, if truth be told.

A diamond in the rough.

Regards


Arabist and Qurānist, among other things.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 09:39:43 AM by hicham9 »

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2016, 08:01:53 PM »
Hi everybody,
Recently I have watched the Principle movie; in which you can see a debate about if Earth/human being are Significant or not. While They don't discuss the Earth shape, they focus on its location in the universe. More evidences in the documentry show that Earth is the center. Recommended since Flat & Geocentric are connected (i think so).

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 04:21:43 PM »
Hi everybody,
Recently I have watched the Principle movie; in which you can see a debate about if Earth/human being are Significant or not. While They don't discuss the Earth shape, they focus on its location in the universe. More evidences in the documentry show that Earth is the center. Recommended since Flat & Geocentric are connected (i think so).

I do remember watching the trailer for that a while ago. I will check it out, thanks.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 10:59:04 AM »
)‏
(5) He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

this ayat means that the day and night are persistant, this ayat is not a proof of globe

İntikam

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 07:50:37 PM »
Hello Muhammet,

As a Turk i say you wellcome to forum and Turkey, "hoşgeldin".

First i  must say that i'm sorry for you here, i know you have a war on your country caused by our PM dicdator Erdoghan supporting to terrorism on your country. This is a bit our mistake because we elected him, but be sure we was not know he'll be a dicdator because he were talking good. :)

I know most of your writen because as a muslim i passed on same way.

Actually islamic scholars changed quran by same way that what happened to torah and bible. They can't change the verses but chance it's means (meals), (translations). Their act depends on the idea that "islam don't conflict to science". This is a nonsence. Most of Reverends depends on this idea because quran encourages research and read. But this not mean "change the meaning of the verses fit to science.

When i saw FE's i see that they are really saved what bible say about earth. This is really interesting that islamic Reverends did they give up easily, but i see christian reverends resisted better then islamic reverends. to be the last religion, the last being the book didn't help them. Yes i'm nevertheless still muslim. Because this is not islamic mistake, this mistake caused by some men believed to NASA 1969 lie.

Anyway. I hope you find out the truth.

Offline saeed

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 08:38:46 AM »
Quran has been changed??????
Are you a Muslim. ... you know nothing about quran and Islam. ... Coz Allahﷻ in Quran says indeed we protect our book ... and if you dont believe it you are a non_Muslim. ....

İntikam

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 09:56:24 AM »
Quran has been changed??????
Are you a Muslim. ... you know nothing about quran and Islam. ... Coz Allahﷻ in Quran says indeed we protect our book ... and if you dont believe it you are a non_Muslim. ....

Yeah Alhamdulillah yeah i am a muslim but i'm worried about you are not. What are you talking about man? Do you understand yourself? Do you know what is the real meaning of "believe in the books?"

Allah said on the torah and bible that saves them but after that what's happened?

Can you show me a verse on the quran says the bible is changed? Oppositely says "accept them". Look what is "To believe in the books?". It is to believe that they don't changes. Quran, torah and bible all same. No difference. I mean the translate is constantly changing.

The word of "change" has two meaning but  in our world it is same word. I believe that no one of the books can change but they can change like this. This is not a frenzy or nonsence just i'm using same word that "change" to tell.

Look i'll give you an example to show you how is quran changing while it don't changes.  :)

This is from mulk 67/3 verse. الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا مَّا تَرَى فِي خَلْقِ الرَّحْمَنِ مِن تَفَاوُتٍ فَارْجِعِ الْبَصَرَ هَلْ تَرَى مِن فُطُورٍ ﴿٣﴾

Now look the last word as " فُطُورٍ". its speaking in Turkish "futuur". the translation of all scholars are saying about futuur as "break". To see one of them look to http://quran.com/67/3 you see that "futurin" or "futur" translated to "break". Is it real? No.

Copy the "فُطُورٍ" , Translate it from Arabic to English. For do that, you can use google or yandex. Both of them let same result. To see it click here. You can listen it. It means "breakfast".

To control it use the opposite translation. Translate "breakfast" to arabic: translated to "futurin". Now translate "break" to arabic, it translates "kesar". The word is not kesar, it is futurin so the true word is "breakfast"

So is it a translate error because in verses it means "break" and in popular arabic it means "breakfast". The words "break" seems like "breakfast" but it has mean completely different. So i look translate it from arabic to turkish. it means kahvaltı (breakfast). Yes we sure that "break" changed to "breakfast" in 1400 years.

The ayath popular translation:

"[And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks?"

Same ayath my translation:

"who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return vision; do you see any breakfast?"

As you see that i don't use parantese because it is not my problem who understand what. And used the breakfast that the real meaning of the word. meany or meanless it is not my problem. For real, we should to do that. It seems like meaningless but this is not my problem, because i translated it word to word.

I gave it you as an example. Books are changing like this. Nobody change God's own words but the books are changing by this way. The time is changing so all of the words getting new meanings, so everything is changing, also the holly books. The time changing is unresistable for everything also the books.


« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:03:14 AM by İntikam »

Offline Muslim

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 08:26:24 PM »
I have registered just to reply to this as it shows up on Google.

The above is all rubbish.

Firstly, there's no mention in the Quraan that it's FLAT.

A carpet or turf can be laid out on any terrain even if it's arched. It doesn't have to be flat. To compare and say a carpet cannot be laid on a football is just ridiculous and you wouldn't deserve a reply on something so daft.

It's mentioned as a great gift in the verses the fact that the the Earth is spread out so wide that we can live on it. So it looks flat, but it's not and the Quraan does NOT say it is flat.

I have asked scholars, here you have cowboys pretending to be scholars and speaking on behalf of Muslim's beliefs.

We do not believe the Earth is flat.

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 06:49:03 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

Offline Muslim

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2017, 01:47:42 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2017, 02:52:16 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that.

*ahem*

In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2017, 06:57:16 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that.

I'm not trying to spin the burden onto you, I am actually just genuinely curious. I am very familiar with Biblical text but not so with the Quran.

But I do give the OP credit for actually explaining why the verses he highlighted could represent the Earth being flat. You made the claim, without any supporting explanations, that every verse describes the Earth as spherical. You didn't spend a lot of time debating OP's points, so it makes it hard for me to really determine how the Earth is described in the Quran.

Offline Muslim

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 06:59:13 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that.

*ahem*

In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.
And what does that have to do with "I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that." ?

Offline Muslim

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Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 07:03:39 PM »
I'm not trying to spin the burden onto you, I am actually just genuinely curious. I am very familiar with Biblical text but not so with the Quran.

But I do give the OP credit for actually explaining why the verses he highlighted could represent the Earth being flat. You made the claim, without any supporting explanations, that every verse describes the Earth as spherical. You didn't spend a lot of time debating OP's points, so it makes it hard for me to really determine how the Earth is described in the Quran.

A very factually wrong statement from you. I didn't make a claim that every verse describes the Earth as spherical. This is a big issue I have with people who do not read text as is and spin their own meanings according to what they think is said.

If you like I can take the OP and debunk it in a very basic manner using nothing but language if there's any genuine interest.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 07:14:40 PM »
If you like I can take the OP and debunk it in a very basic manner using nothing but language if there's any genuine interest.

It would only be fair to the OP you are discrediting. And as I said, I don't have any deep knowledge of the Quran, but from what I've studied from the torah and the bible it is very ambiguous as to the shape of the Earth. Nowhere does it definitively describe the Earth as a sphere or a flat plane.

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 07:55:40 PM »

Show me one verse that says the Earth is flat. Don't put your own understandings and meaning or interpretations. Just show a clear verse. If it was flat, why wouldn't Allah just say so? In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.

Well to continue the conversation, can you list the verses that clearly describe the earth as a sphere?

I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that.

*ahem*

In fact, every verse indicates that it's a sphere except to those who have already fallen flat on the Flat Earth madness.
And what does that have to do with "I am not the one claiming that the Qur'aan states the Earth is flat and then using verses that says no such thing to try and prove that." ?

TheTruthIsOnHere's question was a legitimate follow-up to your statement. Your reply, while true, did not answer his question. It was just an evasion/deflection.

My first response was an attempt to point this out, but perhaps I was too subtle. I apologize if the color coding in this comment seems condescending. I decided to be as explicit as possible this time.

A very factually wrong statement from you. I didn't make a claim that every verse describes the Earth as spherical. This is a big issue I have with people who do not read text as is and spin their own meanings according to what they think is said.

Is this the part where you brag about your linguistic superiority for understanding the difference between "describes" and "indicates"? Oh goody, I can't wait...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 08:00:20 PM by TotesNotReptilian »

Re: Islam & Flat Earth
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 08:17:30 PM »
Yes a little subtle totes, I glanced over the last quote because I thought it was a signature or something. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed the obvious claim that he claimed he didn't claim lol

That being said, it is interesting to see this debate not just be something for the Christian and Western world. Disheartening, though, to see some of the same rhetoric and broken logic used.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 08:20:05 PM by TheTruthIsOnHere »