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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Social media
« on: January 27, 2016, 02:41:54 PM »
except google+ ... do we even use that still or is it SEO lipservice?
Very much the latter right now. I'm focusing my efforts on Facebook because that seems to be what I'm good at. I hope to diverge my attention once I get Facebook where I want it, but that's a long-term and low-priority plan.

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to get involved/help out, feel free to send me a PM.
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Re: Social media
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 03:09:55 PM »
except google+ ... do we even use that still or is it SEO lipservice?
Very much the latter right now. I'm focusing my efforts on Facebook because that seems to be what I'm good at. I hope to diverge my attention once I get Facebook where I want it, but that's a long-term and low-priority plan.

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to get involved/help out, feel free to send me a PM.
Should we look at using hootesuite or something for the generic messages? That way, when you make a post for facebook, it is automatically updated to google+, reddit and twitter etc and we don't have to send all our main newsw updates 4 times. then maybe 3 of us could just monitor all the social media from one place.
https://hootsuite.com/en-gb/plans/free
I also think Instagram/tumbler would be good for all the maps, images, diagrams etc that FE at large generates. A generic program would cover more platforms without more effort. It would then be trivial if say we wanted to add a flat earth RSS feed or something also updated with no extra effort.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 03:12:54 PM by Dr David Thork »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 03:33:58 PM »
Definitely worth looking into, but perhaps we should split this into two threads? The social media discussion is definitely worth having, but perhaps it shouldn't go under "favicon".

Would one of the mods/admins be so kind and help us out here?
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Re: Social media
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 03:52:13 PM »
Well something like hootesuite is free. We need only have agreement from the people doing the various social media channels and we can just agree to set it up and share the login details.

For me it is a bit of a no brainer. All channels get updated with all the good stuff all the time and things like google+ that rely on SEO are active and not neglected (which then kills the SEO).

Who manages the others? Junker and Secretuser?

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Offline juner

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Re: Social media
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2016, 04:11:30 PM »
I am only doing Reddit at this point and SU just basically watches while I work. But, I am good with it.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Social media
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 04:16:35 PM »
I am only doing Reddit at this point and SU just basically watches while I work. But, I am good with it.
Hey! I removed a thread with an expletive in the title just yesterday.

Thork

Re: Social media
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 04:19:04 PM »
I don't pretend to understand reddit at all. Never used it. Seems like it is full of f*ckwits.

Well maybe me and pizza can take this off line and amalgamate twitter, facebook, google+ and maybe make an RSS feed as well?

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Offline juner

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Re: Social media
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 04:45:09 PM »
I am only doing Reddit at this point and SU just basically watches while I work. But, I am good with it.
Hey! I removed a thread with an expletive in the title just yesterday.
Apologies, I meant that the only social media I am doing anything with currently is Reddit. Not that I am the only one doing anything with Reddit.


I don't pretend to understand reddit at all. Never used it. Seems like it is full of f*ckwits.

Well maybe me and pizza can take this off line and amalgamate twitter, facebook, google+ and maybe make an RSS feed as well?
It is mostly full of f*ckwits. I avoided it for a long time, but took it up recently.

Thork

Re: Social media
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2016, 04:58:33 PM »
I don't pretend to understand reddit at all. Never used it. Seems like it is full of f*ckwits.

It is mostly full of f*ckwits. I ... took it up recently.

Moving on ...

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2016, 05:18:51 PM »
Personally, I think the ways we manage Twitter and Facebook (the two social channels with the most activity to date) are very different - and that's a good thing.

My proposal would be that we keep the multiplicity of styles, but that each of the current channels gets mirrored elsewhere. e.g. I keep Facebook and G+ and make sure that G+ is still at least a mirror or Facebook. And obviously if someone wants to take over at some point, then we can do that.

Thoughts?
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Offline Lord Wilmore

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Re: Social media
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2016, 05:23:10 PM »
For what it's worth, I agree with pp that it's better to keep the two separate, as hootsuite-style applications just don't work in terms of style on Twitter. It comes across as exactly what it is - an attempt to put less effort in.

Now, if it's a choice between never/rarely updating and hootsuite, well, hootsuite is better. But I think Twitter benefits from the personal touch.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Offline juner

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Re: Social media
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 11:22:54 PM »
I created an ad campaign to generate likes on our Facebook page today. I threw $100 at it to run for the next couple weeks. So far today has costed us ~$1 per like  >o<

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Offline juner

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Re: Social media
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 04:02:45 AM »
~$35 used and 106 likes later makes for $0.33 per like. Still want more, though. The model should be pay per like  >:(

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2016, 03:08:55 PM »
~$35 used and 106 likes later makes for $0.33 per like.
That's surprisingly expensive. I usually squeeze out something like $0.07-$0.10 per like. You might want to fiddle around with your ad design and targetting.

Still want more, though. The model should be pay per like  >:(
You can set it to do that. Personally, I've never tried it, so I have no idea how that would actually affect the cost.
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Offline juner

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Re: Social media
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2016, 06:13:21 PM »
I've tweaked the targeting a bit. Will wait and see what happens.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2016, 12:16:35 AM »
From my (admittedly very limited) experience, it really pays off to take your time and try to get the details right. Nothing that I say below is the objectively "right" way to go about things, but this is what's been working best for me to date:

Location: All major English-speaking countries, a few other European countries, perhaps a couple countries in Latin America or Asia. I generally avoid Africa - while it yields many cheap likes, there is an increased risk of getting liked by bots, which are then useless.

Interests: These are hugely important. It doesn't matter if people see your ad if they don't give a toss about it. Depending on who you want to attract at the time, there seem to be two obvious routes. If you're looking for genuine supporters, some good categories are Flat Earth (duh), alternative medicine, conspiracy theory, moon landing conspiracy theory, religion, etc. - you know, the kind of people who are likely to question scientific authorities. Alternatively, you may want to look for people who will follow us because they find us bizarre - in that case, the obvious categories would be science, pseudoscience, US Politics: Very Liberal (hello, r/atheism), etc.

Finally, the "creative" bit. When I first started with this, I assumed that nobody will care about what picture you slap on an ad. If they care about the Flat Earth Society, they'll look into it, right? I'm not gonna lie, it still baffles me a bit, but choosing the right picture is much more important than I would intuitively think. Perhaps this is just me being me. Anyway, I ran a quick test just now. I set up an advert set with a budget of $20 and created 5 identical ads, differing only in the image used. The actual ad text I used was somewhat uninspired ("What is the shape of the Earth? The answer might surprise you!") and it probably makes my ad worse than something I would normally put out. Here are the 5 variants of the ad I used for this test:



The page's cover photo - seems like a sensible enough choice. Blanko's design is snazzy, and it makes the whole thing look professional. Right now, it's performing at $0.13 per like.


A fairly generic stock photo I grabbed from Facebook's picture bank - not particularly relevant, and not particularly effective. $0.28 per like right now.


An irrelevant map - not in line with FET, and while it looks pretty cool, it obviously doesn't draw people in. $0.39 per like.


The horizon - abysmal. I can only imagine that those who aren't already sympathetic towards FET in some way look at it and think "hey, that looks round to me". $0.78 per like. I'm turning this money sink off now.


A pretty Flat Earth map - this one takes the cake. At $0.10 per like, I think this one could get us quite far if I actually worked on tweaking the ad further. Will definitely use it in future, more serious, work.

On top of all that, Facebook has recently introduced the option of video ads. I was thinking about experimenting with our homepage header video and turning that into a Facebook ad. I imagine some extra motion could be quite attractive. Someone with a better understanding of this stuff could also probably capitalise on making gender-specific ads. It looks like Blanko's header image appeals to women more than it does to men, while the "pretty map" is much more gender-balanced.

Together, this ad set has so far generated 80 likes for $12.59, averaging at $0.16 per like. Since Facebook's algorithms rely on a feedback loop, the best-performing ad has been prioritised (displayed 535 times, yielded 50 likes), while the worst-performing one has been slowed down (277 views, only 2 likes). I now have an option of completely killing off the strains that don't work and letting the ones that do work make good use of the remaining $7.41. I will be doing just that, hopefully securing another 80 or so likes.

I hope I'm not making myself sound like an arrogant know-it-all here. I also apologise if this is all obvious to others. A lot of this stuff took me a long time to get my head around, since it goes completely against my intuition. So, in the interest of saving others some time, I thought it might be worth documenting.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:25:17 AM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Social media
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2016, 01:45:13 AM »
I think it is good Blanko's design attracts more women. TFES has always been sausage fest. A little 'positive discrimation' might right that imbalance. The difference between $0.10 and $0.13 isn't a huge amount, although notable.

The flat map also doesn't identify us in any way. There is no branding to it. They aren't liking us and TFES so much as just flat earth which could be dubay, shenton, powerland or any other strain of FET. Being as many of those strains now seem to harbour large dollops of anti-Semitism, keeping a distinction might not be a bad thing right now.

Might I ask, why are we buying likes? I could buy twitter followers, but I'd rather the people were real. I understand real people 'like' us when they see the ad, but it was forced on to them. They didn't find us of their own accord. I'm not sure how that translates to actual interest in the society.

Fascinating research, I'm just not really up to speed with what it is you are trying to achieve. Don't get defensive. this isn't an attack. I simply don't understand the motive. The effort is very commendable though. :)

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2016, 03:55:24 AM »
Might I ask, why are we buying likes? I could buy twitter followers, but I'd rather the people were real. I understand real people 'like' us when they see the ad, but it was forced on to them. They didn't find us of their own accord. I'm not sure how that translates to actual interest in the society.
I see your point, but I don't necessarily agree. I simply wouldn't go as far as to say that it was forced upon them.

In essence, without a little bit of advertising, we'll only be found by people who are already looking. In doing so, we're missing on the potential of people who would be interested, but who have no idea we exist. We simplify it hugely by talking about the cost per like, but what the end user sees is very different. When they browse Facebook, it will occasionally give them a friendly reminder that the Earth is flat. That user is then left with complete freedom of choice as to what they'll do. They can look at our page, like it straight away, ignore the ad, or tell Facebook to never show our content to them again. It doesn't mean they didn't find us, it just means they were provided with an easier avenue of finding us.

The way I run our Facebook is very different from how we run the rest of the site. The idea is to get as many people with even a passing interest in the Society (doesn't necessarily matter if they're FET supporters or just curious RE'ers) and distribute FE related content to them. Those people then do some of our work for us by liking or sharing the content. Their friends see it, and become ever so slightly more aware of our existence. It's unlikely to be something that would outright convert people, but it's likely to spark some interest; and those interested can then go out and research the more "hardcore" information through any channels they choose. Ultimately, the motive is to bring FES to those who might benefit from it.

Worst case scenario, Junker and I are wasting money. Best case scenario, people end up coming here. I'm not going to mention any names for (hopefully) obvious reasons, but I know of at least a few users who came to the forum from FB.
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Re: Social media
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2016, 11:21:27 AM »
Ok, I get it. I have been doing twitter along the same lines. Just trying to get noticed by as many people as possible. So if NASA tweets, I respond. A celeb. A renowned scientist.

Twitter seems to be a very exponential thing. I took over the account with about 15 followers. Just getting to 30 took over a month. It is like you are screaming in the darkness with a million other voices all shouting "notice me, I have something to say". But last month I added almost 200. Retweets go further, more people like the posts, more people comment and ultimately more see and interact.

In a year we've roughly a thousand followers. Not too bad compared with other accounts I have seen. I'd expect 5,000 by this time next year. It was getting started that was hardest. A twitter account with 15 users doesn't look much like an official society as a lunatic with a parody account. Maybe advertising or even buying bot followers would have saved that obstacle ... but we're all still learning huh?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Social media
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2016, 01:30:25 PM »
I'd strongly suggest steering clear of bots. They cause more harm than good, since your message reaches fewer real people on average
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