Offline Wulf

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experimental evidence. does it exist?
« on: April 10, 2015, 04:38:01 PM »
to pull from the wiki "The phenomenon we observe everyday when falling is currently substantiated in modern physics by what is called "The Equivalence Principle".

This principle in physics states that in a relative frame of reference, it is not possible to locally discern whether the frame is accelerating upwards, or if the object inside the frame is affected by gravity. "

The wiki states this, but then how on earth(=3) can FE proponents say that Universal Acceleration exists if by very nature we cannot discern whether it's gravity or Acceleration? am i to believe that FE theory proponents never performed any experiments to see if gravity exists? it is very possible to see gravitational effects of objects smaller than the earth.

are there any experiments at all that have been completed by FE proponents?

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 04:46:07 PM »
to pull from the wiki "The phenomenon we observe everyday when falling is currently substantiated in modern physics by what is called "The Equivalence Principle".

This principle in physics states that in a relative frame of reference, it is not possible to locally discern whether the frame is accelerating upwards, or if the object inside the frame is affected by gravity. "

The wiki states this, but then how on earth(=3) can FE proponents say that Universal Acceleration exists if by very nature we cannot discern whether it's gravity or Acceleration? am i to believe that FE theory proponents never performed any experiments to see if gravity exists? it is very possible to see gravitational effects of objects smaller than the earth.

are there any experiments at all that have been completed by FE proponents?

It is true that gravity and acceleration are physically equivalent, it was Einstein who first realised this. This lead to his theory of General Relativity. What's amusing about this is that it's premised on the notion that velocity is relative. There is no physical definition of absolute zero velocity, zero acceleration has a physical meaning. That's why when you are on a train moving at a constant speed it feels like you aren't moving. If it speeds up or slows down you feel it. One of the arguments I've head so many time from flat Earth proponents is that if the Earth was moving through space we should feel it. This is premised on the idea that there is an absolute rest frame which can be physically defined. They want it both ways.

Ghost of V

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 04:52:00 PM »
it was Einstein who first realised this.

The same Einstein who supported aether? In which you don't accept?

Maybe you shouldn't reference Einstein when you obviously don't agree with his theories?

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 04:58:14 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_aether_theory

This has nothing to do with a mysterious force which can do anything you want it do. The same word used in two different contexts, that's about all it is.

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 05:09:51 PM »
it was Einstein who first realised this.

The same Einstein who supported aether? In which you don't accept?

Maybe you shouldn't reference Einstein when you obviously don't agree with his theories?

he came up with many different theories. i'm pretty sure he moved on when the theories were dis-proven. besides, his aether theory still contained gravity. i'm open to the idea of aether, just not as a substitute for gravity.

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 05:12:05 PM »
i should probably be more specific. i am open to the idea of aether if there is an observable phenomenon that supports it. right now there is none, snd this is why the idea has been shot down multiple times in different theories.

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Offline jroa

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 05:18:24 PM »
You people are bold to call Einstein a liar. 

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 05:32:14 PM »
What was that rumble I just heard? Oh, I think it was Einstein turning in his grave.

I don't think he would appreciate his name being associated with pseudo-scientific nonsense. The only thing Eistein's aether has in common with flat Earth aether is its name. Even if I disagreed with something Einstein said that wouldn't be tantamount to me calling him a liar.

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Offline markjo

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 05:47:27 PM »
You people are bold to call Einstein a liar.
Not nearly as bold as you are for completely misrepresenting his theories.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline jroa

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 05:50:29 PM »
I am sorry, but are you saying that theories are not open to interpretation? 

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 06:01:16 PM »
I am sorry, but are you saying that theories are not open to interpretation?

i would say not. theories are the result of logical deduction. philosophy isn't really a part of it.

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2015, 06:01:26 PM »
I want to draw this thread back to what was originally asked.

Is there any evidence that downward acceleration on the Earth is due to the Earth accelerating upwards rather than gravity pulling things down?

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Offline markjo

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2015, 06:02:16 PM »
I am sorry, but are you saying that theories are not open to interpretation?
Interpretation?  To a certain extent, yes.  Redefinition?  No.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2015, 07:34:17 PM »
I want to draw this thread back to what was originally asked.

Is there any evidence that downward acceleration on the Earth is due to the Earth accelerating upwards rather than gravity pulling things down?
i second this motion.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2015, 08:01:43 PM »
Einstein proved the Earth is flat.  Case closed.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2015, 08:10:05 PM »
Einstein proved the Earth is flat.  Case closed.

i'm sorry but that statement needs more of an explanation. for example, i could say Steven hawking proved that the earth is a sphere. Are you inclined to believe me? i don't think so. as far as i know, Einstein did not advocate for a flat earth and i doubt it ever crossed his mind to do so.

so i ask again. where is the evidence? i mean can't you just throw me a link or something so we can at least get the ball rolling on this topic?

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Offline markjo

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2015, 08:26:51 PM »
Einstein proved the Earth is flat.  Case closed.
How does mass warping space-time prove that the earth is flat?  ???
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2015, 08:36:46 PM »
I am unaware of their being a single world class Physicist or Astrophysicist who believes that the Earth is flat. I am not aware of there even being any average Physicists or Astrophysicists who do.

Offline Wulf

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2015, 08:47:28 PM »
i mean seriously, nothing?

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Offline Roundy

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Re: experimental evidence. does it exist?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2015, 08:49:21 PM »
Einstein proved the Earth is flat.  Case closed.
How does mass warping space-time prove that the earth is flat?  ???
i mean seriously, nothing?

What part of "Case closed" do you not understand?  ???
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)