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Offline jroa

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Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« on: April 07, 2015, 12:25:41 PM »
It is possible to be against Israel but not hate Jews.  The two things are not mutually inclusive, even if Yaakov tries to cry, "anti-Semite" every time someone mentions something against the Zionist occupiers. 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Re: Anti-Semitism of the Moderators.
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 02:22:34 PM »
JROA, that is digenuous at best, and downright dishonest at worst. "I don't hate Jews, but they shouldn't have a state of their own." is oxymoronic. Its like saying you don't mind the French, but France should not exist. As I have said many times, "Palestine" could have had a State in '48,  '01, and in '08. They refused all times. Hamas calls for the ddestruction of Israel. The PA won't recognise it as a Jewish State. Until they do, they won't get their State.

Does Israel fuck up? Yes. No one denies that. But they admit it. That is what the Supreme Court is for, to which "Palestinians" often bring cases, which they often win. Try doing that in Tibet. The fact remains that most people who hate Israel also hate Jews, but try to hide it under pseudo-academic bullshit, you included.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 02:41:43 PM »
Once again, Yaakov, if I take over your house, and then offer to give you back the garage, one bedroom and a closet, you would say I was being unreasonable.  Yet, when Israel does it, they call the other people ungrateful.  Do you not see the irony? 

Also, I watched some videos of little Palestinian kids (less than 10 years old) getting roughed up, arrested, and imprisoned by the IDF for allegedly throwing a rock.  The same IDF just stands by and watches when a group of Jews attack and almost kill a small Palestinian child.  How do you justify this? 

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Re: Anti-Semitism of the Moderators.
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 03:14:46 PM »
JROA, that is digenuous at best, and downright dishonest at worst. "I don't hate Jews, but they shouldn't have a state of their own." is oxymoronic. Its like saying you don't mind the French, but France should not exist. As I have said many times, "Palestine" could have had a State in '48,  '01, and in '08. They refused all times. Hamas calls for the ddestruction of Israel. The PA won't recognise it as a Jewish State. Until they do, they won't get their State.

Does Israel fuck up? Yes. No one denies that. But they admit it. That is what the Supreme Court is for, to which "Palestinians" often bring cases, which they often win. Try doing that in Tibet. The fact remains that most people who hate Israel also hate Jews, but try to hide it under pseudo-academic bullshit, you included.

Uhh, no, Yaakov, being French in France is not the same as being Jewish in Israel. People who live in Israel are called Israelis, not Jews. Some are both Israeli and Jewish, just like how some are Islamic and Israeli.

The world should not make a special case for Israel just because its population happens to be more monolithic than most. Since the creation of Israel, it and its people have done nothing but stay engaged in a war with the surrounding area and it has almost always had the upper hand. It is more wealthy, more composed, and more militaristic than any country within a thousand miles. So yes, when people see their military killing civilians because they can't be bothered to check their targets, it comes to no surprise that the international criticism will come pouring in.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 03:21:12 PM »
I would not have a problem with Israel if they did not steal the land from Palestine, claim it was their divine right, and then proceed to treat the Palestinians like red headed step children. 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2015, 03:59:26 PM »
Like I said, "Palestinians" could have had their own state three times, and in fact they already DO have their own state. Its called Jordan. It is 70% "Palestinian". And ultimately, there are French People, and there are people with French citizenship. Very few people would call them French. There are Jews in Israel, and then there are people with Israeli citizenship. There is a difference. Israel has always been classified as a Jewish State, and that is probably going to become even more pronounced, when the proposed Nationality Law comes into effect, as it should.

You can this argument by yourselves. Because I know where I stand, and that I am right, and that we have had this out in my thread already several times, you can do it for yourself if you wish. I see no need to repeat myself. Enjoy.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2015, 04:00:58 PM »
Palestine had a state before it was illegally taken from them.  What if I took your car and then offered to give you back the cigarette lighter?  Would you be happy with that? 

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 04:07:27 PM »
I bet Yaakov also wouldn't be happy if I airdropped fliers on his house informing him that I will blow up his house the next day. Blowing up his house is now okay because I warned him first. It also isn't murder because it is only murder if I consider it to be murder, therefore killing him is A-Okay.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 04:47:44 PM »
Palestine had a state before it was illegally taken from them.  What if I took your car and then offered to give you back the cigarette lighter?  Would you be happy with that? 
But jroa! Palestinians doesn't have the divine right to that land! The Jews does! God said so!
The Mastery.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 04:54:25 PM »
Let's please try to keep the religious element out of this.  This thread is about Israel the country not being legitimate, not the Jewism religion. 

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Offline beardo

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 05:40:57 PM »
To a Jew, the religious elements are always relevant and present.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 05:44:49 PM »
To a Jew, the religious elements are always relevant and present.

Well, not to all of them, just a lot. The ones who are both Jewish and criticize Israel are oft referred to as "self-hating Jews" by religious profligates, including Yaakov.

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Offline Tau

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
Anti-Israel is sometimes anti-semitism, but jews tend to assume that they're the same thing and that's kinda ridiculous. There are plenty of reasons to be against Israel without even taking religion into account.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 01:01:30 AM »
Israel is a country.
Jews are a group of people who are so insular in their ideas and beliefs that they don't even like marrying non-Jews. 

One can hate one and not hate the other.  Me?  I'm not a fan of either.  Mostly because Israel is run with the same ideas and beliefs that Jewish society runs on. 

So in a way, being anti-Israel is like being anti-jew.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2015, 09:33:20 AM »
JROA, that is digenuous at best, and downright dishonest at worst. "I don't hate Jews, but they shouldn't have a state of their own." is oxymoronic. Its like saying you don't mind the French, but France should not exist.

Should the Romani have a state of their own? If you don't happen to think so, does that necessarily entail you being anti-gypsy?

Plenty of Jews do not believe Israel should exist. In fact, back when Zionism first became a thing, the only people who opposed it were other Jews, given that they were the only people who knew or cared about the idea. Are the devoutly Orthodox members of the Neturei Karta or Satmar sect anti-Jewish?

That is just a stupid response. In fact, the Satmar and the Neturei Karta should NOT be allowed to live in Israel, in my opinion. Rejection of the State should get them a choice of deportation or death. Should  the Romani have a State of their own? Yes, I am inclined to think they should. I know of no sensible Jew, not even Reform ones, who oppose Israel's existence, although I know a few self-hating ones who are stupid enough to support the people who throw rockets at us.

Here is what it comes down to, and it is as simple as this, to wit:

EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM ARAB in Greater Israel should be given free swimming lessons for one week. After that, they should be escorted to the Med. Sea and told to enjoy the water. They should be pointed West, and told that Algeria is that way. Plenty of free land that way. Greater Israel includes Israel within the Green Line, The Gaza Strip, the West Bank, ALL of Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. Druze should be regarded as citizens. Christians should be allowed to live in Israel as resident aliens. Israel should be declared a Halachic State (one that follows Torah). The Dome of the Rock monstrosity should be blown up, and the Holy Temple should be rebuilt, and the Fire Offerings reinstated. Anyone who has any issues with any of this can take it up with the IDF and the nation's nuclear arsenal. Have a nice Jewish day.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 09:36:27 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2015, 09:51:58 AM »
Well, if Israel is nuked then we can answer two questions.

1.Does God want them to have that land?
The answer being no since he didn't stop it from being uninhabitable.

2. Can you be anti-israel and not anti-Jew.
The answer being yes since there is no Israel anymore.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2015, 09:58:53 AM »
Like I said, don't take it up with me. Take it up with the IDF. They haven't lost a single war since 1948, and G-d knows they've been in enough of them.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2015, 11:06:50 AM »
Like I said, don't take it up with me. Take it up with the IDF. They haven't lost a single war since 1948, and G-d knows they've been in enough of them.
With good reason: Jews are Jerks.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2015, 11:33:09 AM »
And the sheygetzim are any better? All we are doing is taking our land back from the Arabs, who stole it from the Romans, who stole it from us. I don't care what group of sheygetz took it, all I care is that they go away now. The fact that the current sheygetzim there now are Arab is beside the point. I wouldn't care if they were good little Episcopalians. They don't belong there. Israel belongs to the Jews.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Anti Israel is not Anti Semitism
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2015, 11:41:32 AM »
And the sheygetzim are any better? All we are doing is taking our land back from the Arabs, who stole it from the Romans, who stole it from us. I don't care what group of sheygetz took it, all I care is that they go away now. The fact that the current sheygetzim there now are Arab is beside the point. I wouldn't care if they were good little Episcopalians. They don't belong there. Israel belongs to the Jews.
Says only Jews.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.