Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2015, 10:30:39 PM »
Gary, why would highly trained astronauts in the middle of a mission which has to go absolutely perfectly, with little room for error, randomly interrupt mission control? Interrupting people on Earth is rude, but interrupting people on the moon seems downright suicidal to me.

There's plenty of room for error when all you're doing is putting boxes away.  That's what they're discussing in the clip in question. 

You're assuming that every moment of the mission required flawless communication to keep the astronauts alive.  Other than lunar descent and ascent, I can't think of anything the astronauts did on the Moon that would even benefit from flawless communication with Houston.  They were highly autonomous.  They set up some experiments.  They walked around.  They drove in a buggy.  They got in and out of the LEM.  What, in your opinion, did they do on the Moon that would require communication with Houston to go "absolutely perfectly"?  Since I'm really only offering my own incredulity at this point, it's a serious question.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2015, 11:31:03 PM »
As I've mentioned before, I do not believe that Parker is asking a question.  "Copy that.  We've also got SCB-3 with the Rover samples in it on the Rover, if you have any...yeah, you have some of those today," doesn't sound at all like a question to me.  It doesn't sound like a question to me when I listen to the audio (here it is again).  It certainly isn't inflected like one.

I interpret Parker's statement like this: "I understand.  Also, the thing with the rover samples in it is on the rover if you have any samples...Oh yeah, you do have some samples today."

I'm sure that's "blatantly absurd," but it makes sense to my enfeebled, sheeple brain.

Yes, but why is does the response Huston gives after, according to you when the astronaut interrupted them, perfectly match up with the delay, down to millisecond accuracy? Huston speaks a full sentence: ""If you have any, yeah, some of those today" and then the astronaut immediately replies "No, we emptied those into 5." Why is Huston's question spot on in length? One would think that the sentences would overlap, or there would be a gap in speech, but the astronaut responds immediately as if in the next room on a telephone call. It seems astronomical that Houston would happen to fill up the delay time with a sentence that is perfect in length and context.

Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2015, 12:27:44 AM »
Yes, but why is does the response Huston gives after, according to you when the astronaut interrupted them, perfectly match up with the delay, down to millisecond accuracy? Huston speaks a full sentence: ""If you have any, yeah, some of those today" and then the astronaut immediately replies "No, we emptied those into 5." Why is Huston's question spot on in length? One would think that the sentences would overlap, or there would be a gap in speech, but the astronaut responds immediately as if in the next room on a telephone call. It seems astronomical that Houston would happen to fill up the delay time with a sentence that is perfect in length and context.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.  I'm probably misunderstanding you.  What are the two things that are exactly the same length "down to the millisecond accuracy"?

To my listening, the two sentences do overlap.  Schmitt doesn't reply, "No, we emptied those into 5."  Did you listen to the audio clip?  He replies, "No we...we em...we emptied those into 5."  In the pauses you can distinctly hear Parker's voice.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2015, 12:50:23 AM »
Yes, but why is does the response Huston gives after, according to you when the astronaut interrupted them, perfectly match up with the delay, down to millisecond accuracy? Huston speaks a full sentence: ""If you have any, yeah, some of those today" and then the astronaut immediately replies "No, we emptied those into 5." Why is Huston's question spot on in length? One would think that the sentences would overlap, or there would be a gap in speech, but the astronaut responds immediately as if in the next room on a telephone call. It seems astronomical that Houston would happen to fill up the delay time with a sentence that is perfect in length and context.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.  I'm probably misunderstanding you.  What are the two things that are exactly the same length "down to the millisecond accuracy"?

To my listening, the two sentences do overlap.  Schmitt doesn't reply, "No, we emptied those into 5."  Did you listen to the audio clip?  He replies, "No we...we em...we emptied those into 5."  In the pauses you can distinctly hear Parker's voice.

If the Astronaut really interrupt huston, it seems odd that huston filled in the delay gap with a question of perfect length, to which an immediate answer of "No" was given. You would think that it could have been a shorter question, or a longer one, or not even a question at all, but the length of the question Huston asked just happened to be the correct length to which an answer was immediately given by the delayed astronauts interrupting huston midspeech.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 02:40:13 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline Gulliver

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2015, 03:34:40 AM »
Yes, but why is does the response Huston gives after, according to you when the astronaut interrupted them, perfectly match up with the delay, down to millisecond accuracy? Huston speaks a full sentence: ""If you have any, yeah, some of those today" and then the astronaut immediately replies "No, we emptied those into 5." Why is Huston's question spot on in length? One would think that the sentences would overlap, or there would be a gap in speech, but the astronaut responds immediately as if in the next room on a telephone call. It seems astronomical that Houston would happen to fill up the delay time with a sentence that is perfect in length and context.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.  I'm probably misunderstanding you.  What are the two things that are exactly the same length "down to the millisecond accuracy"?

To my listening, the two sentences do overlap.  Schmitt doesn't reply, "No, we emptied those into 5."  Did you listen to the audio clip?  He replies, "No we...we em...we emptied those into 5."  In the pauses you can distinctly hear Parker's voice.

If the Astronaut really interrupt huston, it seems odd that huston filled in the delay gap with a question of perfect length, to which an immediate answer of "No" was given. You would think that it could have been a shorter question, or a longer one, or not even a question at all, but the length of the question Huston asked just happened to be the correct length to which an answer was immediately given by the delayed astronauts interrupting huston midspeech.
So since you're seen a black swan, you know that that there are no white swans, right?

(Black swan <=> rare coincidence of overlaying communications matching up; White swan <=> regularly observed and documented, and predicted delay.)

LRN2LOGIC (Oh, and it's "Houston", as in the Texan city.)
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2015, 03:48:37 AM »
If the Astronaut really interrupt huston, it seems odd that huston filled in the delay gap with a question of perfect length, to which an immediate answer of "No" was given. You would think that it could have been a shorter question, or a longer one, or not even a question at all, but the length of the question Huston asked just happened to be the correct length to which an answer was immediately given by the delayed astronauts interrupting huston midspeech.

Are you really asking me to explain why a sentence uttered in 1972 by someone I've never met was not shorter or longer or different?  I don't have any idea.

I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2015, 02:12:30 PM »
I am pointing out that your explanation requires an unbelievable coincidence. What are the chances that the question would be the exact length necessary for an immediate answer, as if they were on a telephone call in the same building?

Rama Set

Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2015, 02:20:38 PM »
I am pointing out that your explanation requires an unbelievable coincidence. What are the chances that the question would be the exact length necessary for an immediate answer, as if they were on a telephone call in the same building?

You are assuming it is unbelievable and extraordinary because that is how you feel about it. Do you have any hard data on how likely or unlikely it is?

Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2015, 03:24:18 PM »
I am pointing out that your explanation requires an unbelievable coincidence. What are the chances that the question would be the exact length necessary for an immediate answer, as if they were on a telephone call in the same building?

Your personal incredulity is not persuasive to me.

Why was a sentence as long as it was and not longer or shorter or different?  I don't have any idea.

What are the odds of a sentence fragment being approximately 2.5 seconds in length?  Probably not 'unbelievable' or 'astronomical.'

I have question for you: why doesn't Schmitt reply, "No, we emptied those into 5"?  Why does he reply, "No we...we em...we emptied those into 5."  You claim that they sound as if they're on a telephone call.  So why doesn't Schmitt reply as if he's on a telephone call?  If it was a telephone call, then I would expect the audio to sound like this: https://soundcloud.com/garygreen-1/apollo17pt3edit2
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 03:42:11 PM by garygreen »
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 7849
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2015, 03:43:44 AM »
Since the recordings in question were recorded on earth, has anyone wondered what the conversation would have sounded like to the astronauts on the moon with the delays going the other way?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Dionysios

  • *
  • Posts: 280
    • View Profile
Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2015, 09:24:57 PM »
This is so reminiscent of the scenario in Capricorn One where a technician discovered that ground control was receiving the crew's messages before the radio transmissions containing those messages actually arrived. 

After work when he was shooting billiards with Elliot Gould who was very drunk, he told him about it.  As soon as he mentioned the discrepancy, Elliot Gould said "I just sobered up."

@33 minutes


*

Offline Misero

  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Evidence, Evidence, Evidence, and more Evidence.
    • View Profile
No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2015, 03:16:17 AM »
Remember the mixed pot of emotions they are going through. They did it, they are actually on the moon! They can't mess up this setup, we'll die. They have a speech prepared about me being stuck on the moon forever.
200 hours of that.
Nobody should ever follow my standard.  I am the worst moderator ever.
Yes, I'll still keep that in mind on this forum too.

Re: No Transmission Delays to the Moon
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2015, 01:29:04 AM »
I realize this thread is old, but I happened upon something germane to the topic just recently.

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/mission_trans/AS08_TEC.PDF

This Apollo 8 transcript contains two references to the communications delays: one at 04 10 59 38, and another at 04 19 44 46.  In the first, Cap Com remarks that they need to account for the delay to synchronize something; in the second, Bill Anders specifically mentions that he can hear his own echo on a delay.

You can hear Anders say this himself in an audio recording here.  It's recording number 38 at the 1:00 minute mark.  The recording also speaks to the fact Apollo communications were highly disordered at times.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.