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Offline SexWarrior

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REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« on: December 27, 2014, 08:57:16 PM »
The time has come. After many months of discussion, we believe the negotiations between tfes.org and theflatearthsociety.org have reached a point of conclusion, and we would like now to present our reunification proposal. The support (or lack thereof) presented in this thread will determine whether or not we proceed. Please see the proposal below:


Reunification Proposal
Author: pizaaplanet
Version: 1

Assuming the approval of our members, we would like to reunite the two societies under the following conditions:

  • The Forums
    The two societies' forums will be merged by way of tfes.org inheriting theflatearthsociety.org's database. The resultant forum will remain under the current administration, moderation and rules of tfes.org. The web server, codebase, and technical solutions used will be those of tfes.org. Wilmore and Daniel will also have administrative privileges in the forum, but their role in running the forum will be advisory at most, and likely simply ceremonial. The administrators of tfes.org will be the decision-making organ for all things related to the forum. The reunited forum's URL will be forum.theflatearthsociety.org, but redirects will be maintained for forum.tfes.org and theflatearthsociety.org/forum for the foreseeable future. No content from either forum should be lost.
  • The Front Page and Library
    The current front page and Flat Earth Library of theflatearthsociety.org will be used. This will be primarily maintained by Daniel, and will be located on the server of his choosing. At least one tfes.org administrator will be permitted to be a co-admin of the front page. Non-administrative members will be able to apply for accounts, should they wish to submit periodic content (news stories, articles, images, etc.).
  • The Wiki
    The current Wiki of tfes.org will be used.
  • The Society
    • President/VP - Daniel will be the President of the reunited society. Lord Wilmore will be the Vice President. These positions are at Daniel's discretion.
    • The Zetetic Council - A democratically-elected body of 5 members will be electable yearly. They will be officially recognised as such within the Society and will therefore be expected to act as its legitimate representatives. Their exact remit and structure of the council will be established post-reunification (and pre-election) through a general agreement of all members of the Society and forum regulars (unless they deem that such a body is unnecessary). In principle, they will be a decision-making organ of the society wherever possible (e.g. not in charge of membership and merchandise - see below). Daniel will retain veto power over the ZC's decisions.
      • A necessary consequence of this development will be the dissolution of the current Zetetic Council of tfes.org.
      • There will be no restrictions on current councillors partaking in the elections for the new council.
    • Membership - Daniel remains in control of the membership register of theflatearthsociety.org, which will continue to be used in the reunified society. The current membership rules (free associate membership with an optional "Friend of the Flat Earth" membership package sold at no profit) will be carried over to the reunified society.
    • Merchandise - This remains within Daniel's remit and will likely operate as it does currently on theflatearthsociety.org, under the condition that it will be performed at no profit. After reunification, we may investigate alternative pathways (e.g. Zazzle/CafePress), should there be significant demand for such a development.
    • The Logo - The logo of theflatearthsociety.org will be used at the time of reunification

Version history:
#DescriptionDateAuthor
1:Initial version27/12/2014pizaaplanet


What happens now?
As agreed previously, it is now the time for our community to discuss the proposal and suggest modifications. Everyone's input is welcome. Please post your comments below. We (tfes.org administrators) will avoid getting too involved in the discussion proper so as to avoid skewing it, but we will happily respond to any questions. We will also notify Daniel and Wilmore about this thread, so they may be able to answer questions directed at them, should they choose to do so.

The discussion/suggestions period will last for no less than 7 days since the time of this post. At that point, assuming we've reached a sensible consensus, the final version of the proposal would be put to a vote. Provisionally, I would like to suggest that all members who registered and made 50 posts prior to this post. These rules are open for suggestions and amendments on the same conditions as the rest of the proposal.

Thank you for reading, and thanks for flying Flat Earth.
~pizaaplanet
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Ghost of V

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2014, 08:58:47 PM »
I think it sounds great.


If it plays out how you've described it above then I have no issues with this whatsoever. I suppose we'll be keeping our current post count and whatnot. Is there any way to merge my account from the other forum with this one? If not, it's not a big deal, but it would be cool if that was possible.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 09:08:17 PM by Vauxhall »

Saddam Hussein

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2014, 09:06:14 PM »
I'm all for it.  The sooner we get this done, the better.

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Offline Blanko

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2014, 09:07:13 PM »
ey p. neat

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2014, 09:24:10 PM »
Let's do this!

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Offline Foxbox

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2014, 09:42:28 PM »
Sounds good to me.

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Offline Vongeo

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 09:54:40 PM »
What of post counts and e-peens and other such things. :P
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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2014, 10:05:06 PM »
I suppose we'll be keeping our current post count and whatnot. Is there any way to merge my account from the other forum with this one? If not, it's not a big deal, but it would be cool if that was possible.
What of post counts and e-peens and other such things. :P
We hope to merge everything we can. Assuming we overcome potential technical difficulties (which I'm confident we can do), we should be able to merge people's accounts from both forums, preserving their posts, post counts, etc.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 10:29:02 PM by pizaaplanet »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2014, 10:58:14 PM »
Sounds great.  Get 'er done!
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 11:17:18 PM »
inb4 Thork

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Offline Tausami

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 11:49:13 PM »
Sounds great to me.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2014, 11:53:25 PM »
Sounds excellent.
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Offline markjo

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 12:59:58 AM »
Daniel will retain veto power over the ZC's decisions.
Just out of curiosity, will ZC decisions need to be approved by Daniel, or will they stand unless he uses his veto power?  Is there any time limit for Daniel to use his veto power before he's stuck with the ZC's decisions?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Thork

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 01:15:06 AM »
  • The Society
    • President/VP - Daniel will be the President of the reunited society. Lord Wilmore will be the Vice President. These positions are at Daniel's discretion.
      • The Zetetic Council - A democratically-elected body of 5 members will be electable yearly. They will be officially recognised as such within the Society and will therefore be expected to act as its legitimate representatives. Their exact remit and structure of the council will be established post-reunification (and pre-election) through a general agreement of all members of the Society and forum regulars (unless they deem that such a body is unnecessary). In principle, they will be a decision-making organ of the society wherever possible (e.g. not in charge of membership and merchandise - see below). Daniel will retain veto power over the ZC's decisions.
So the council has to be elected but the president doesn't? And nor does his Vice? How does that work?

If we have a despot in charge, call him that. Presidents are elected. Also, we've had Daniel for 10 years and he does very little. Even the United States gets rid of a president after 8 years. Lets have a change. Why are we stuck with Daniel? He does nothing, contributes nothing, doesn't know anything about flat earth history or the theories ... why are we stuck with him forever and ever? Fuck him. We don't need him.


  • Merchandise - This remains within Daniel's remit and will likely operate as it does currently on theflatearthsociety.org, under the condition that it will be performed at no profit. After reunification, we may investigate alternative pathways (e.g. Zazzle/CafePress), should there be significant demand for such a development.
So the most flaky, unreliable and perpetually absent member of the society is the person we put in charge of distributing goods when people give REAL money for them? Come on. This is ridiculous. It has always been a great source of embarrassment how people can give money to the society and Daniel trousers it for 4 months and no one can get hold of him. Give the job to someone else.

There. Not so bad. Only disliked two of the suggestions so we aren't a million miles away.

The thing is, Daniel hasn't moved a jot. He still wants to be the President, still wants control over the main site and all financial control. He wants it all, and wants everyone else to just run it all for him whilst he does very little other than get in the way. Why are we so desperate to put up with all his crap again? If you like his way of doing things, post over there. If you don't, stay here. Why are our choices being limited? I don't want Daniel in charge of a site that I like using. He will not change, he will not compromise, he is just a domain squatter. We don't need him or Wilmore. Neither contribute anything any more. Its time they handed over the reigns. They won't. Leave them to rot over there.

The problem with Daniel is that he isn't accountable to anyone, and he doesn't give a shit about anyone else's opinions. Lets not put him in that position of power again. He abuses it.

[/list][/list]
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 01:33:44 AM by Thork »

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2014, 02:11:02 AM »
Just out of curiosity, will ZC decisions need to be approved by Daniel, or will they stand unless he uses his veto power?  Is there any time limit for Daniel to use his veto power before he's stuck with the ZC's decisions?
Their decision would stand unless vetoed. In principle, he could always overturn a decision.

So the council has to be elected but the president doesn't? And nor does his Vice? How does that work?
Many people (in the reunification thread, but also Daniel himself) used the "Queen of England" analogy. Not all leaders are elected. This deal gives you a Parliament.

As for your questioning of the appropriateness of the title of "president":

A president is the leader of a country or a division or part of a country, typically a republic, a democracy, or a dictatorship. The title "president" is sometimes used by extension for leaders of other groups.

I feel that the rest of your concerns have been done to death by now, and I have nothing to add on the subjects of "We don't need Daniel" or "Daniel is terrible". I understand that you're not happy with the answers, but unless your views become the majority views, we can't act solely on them.

EDIT:
I don't want Daniel in charge of a site that I like using.
I believe the original proposal makes it clear that we would remain in charge of the forum.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 02:15:25 AM by pizaaplanet »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Secret User

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2014, 02:15:10 AM »
I agree with Thork. Things are going fine here, and I don't see a need to change that. We've never been as close knit of a community as this past year.

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 02:35:16 AM »
I agree with the idea of reunification, but I do share some of Thork's sentiment regarding the old guard (though not as passionately). I suppose I'd want to know what fail-safe there is in the event that Daniel decides he doesn't like the current state of affairs, and wants to run everything again and de-admins us all? We could always spin off again, but no sister FES forum has ever done as well as this one, and that's coming from someone who made his own with Parsifal years ago. I agree with secret user that we are closer than I can ever recall. But, if everyone agrees this is where we should go then I'm on board. I have a feeling a lot of people feel as Thork does (again, not as strongly). If they didn't feel that way, I don't see how this place would've thrived for the past year plus. Anyway, just my two cents. Let's do it.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 02:39:09 AM »
I agree with the idea of reunification, but I do share some of Thork's sentiment regarding the old guard (though not as passionately). I suppose I'd want to know what fail-safe there is in the event that Daniel decides he doesn't like the current state of affairs, and wants to run everything again and de-admins us all? We could always spin off again, but no sister FES forum has ever done as well as this one, and that's coming from someone who made his own with Parsifal years ago. I agree with secret user that we are closer than I can ever recall. But, if everyone agrees this is where we should go then I'm on board. I have a feeling a lot of people feel as Thork does (again, not as strongly). If they didn't feel that way, I don't see how this place would've thrived for the past year plus. Anyway, just my two cents. Let's do it.

Daniel can try but he'll have a tough time demodding the people with database access.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 02:45:08 AM »
I suppose I'd want to know what fail-safe there is in the event that Daniel decides he doesn't like the current state of affairs, and wants to run everything again and de-admins us all?
The forum would run on our servers, not his. Even with admin privileges, he couldn't do anything we couldn't undo.
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<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline junker

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Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2014, 02:45:47 AM »
I get that, I just envision a time in the future where friction may occur since there isn't much trust (admitted by Wilmore) from Daniel. Then what happens? I know I may be pessimistic in that regard, but we have built something good here and I do care about it.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

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You're doing God's work, junker.