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11
Flat Earth Q&A / Curiosity
« Last post by Melondor on July 23, 2017, 07:51:41 PM »
I have seen quite a few people call the moon landing a hoax on this forum. What is the general FE census on the mars rovers. Also how do planets fit into FE are they considered projections on the dome or what.
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Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Last post by Melondor on July 23, 2017, 07:41:29 PM »
The sun being visible from both poles can be explained in RET because in Spring and Autumn the earths tilt is tangential to its orbital path. This means it does not appear tilted relative to the sun and neither pole would be in the earths shadow.
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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: No Religion= Peace
« Last post by Jura-Glenlivet on July 23, 2017, 07:15:29 PM »

The irony!
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Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Creation
« Last post by Melondor on July 23, 2017, 07:11:23 PM »
Sounds about right. How many actual flat earthers would you say are on this forum.
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Flat Earth Debate / Re: What is the Sun?
« Last post by Tom Bishop on July 23, 2017, 07:10:32 PM »
Quote
so, just to be clear, you're acknowledging that these predictions are based on tables of coordinates of the sun and moon as described by these two ephemerides, yes?  doesn't that kind of undercut your argument that they're based on saros cycles?

The Saros cycle just gives a time when to expect the next lunar eclipse to appear on the face of the moon. You will also need to know if you will be able to see the moon from your particular location. This is where the equations to find the coordinates of the moon come in.

The Lunar Eclipse is visible for anyone who can see the moon, and you will need to know whether the moon will be over your area at that time, not merely the time of the lunar eclipse.

The Solar Eclipse is visible for only a narrow path beneath the moon, and knowing the coordinates of the sun is necessary for knowing whether a solar eclipse will be visible in your area, not merely the time it will occur.

The coordinates of the sun and moon over the earth have nothing to do with computing the time of the lunar eclipse. It does not say that in the Five Millennium Canon of Solar Eclipses PDF. The only points it brings up is a direct statement that the eclipses are predicted based on the Saros cycle in section 1.2.2 "Saros Series Number"

    "Each eclipse belongs to a Saros series (Sect. 4.2) using a numbering system first introduced by van den Bergh (1955)."

In 4.4 "Saros Series Statistics" we read:

    "Eclipses belonging to 204 different Saros series fall within the five millennium span of the Canon."


The document also states the coordinates for the sun and moon are used in section 1.3 "Solar and Lunar Coordinates":

    "The coordinates of the Sun used in these eclipse predictions have been calculated on the basis of the VSOP87 theory
    constructed by Bretagnon and Francou (1988) at the Bureau des Longitudes, Paris."

    "For the Moon, use has been made of the theory ELP-2000/82 of Chapront-Touzé and Chapront (1983), again of the
    Bureau des Longitudes."

The section says nothing about the coordinates of the sun or moon being used to predict when the eclipse will occur. The coordinates of the sun is used in the eclipse predictions, but the knowledge of coordinates is only useful because it will help create a map showing where the eclipses will be visible from, which is what the map sections of the document is about.

You seem to be saying that there is some special math not mentioned in the document where the time of the eclipse can be predicted without the use of the Saros cycle, despite the document stating that each eclipse is based on a Saros cycle series.
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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Final Nail in the Coffin for the FLAT EARTH
« Last post by TomInAustin on July 23, 2017, 06:45:12 PM »
If your model doesn't represent....REALITY, then the model doesn't hold true.
Excellent news, given that my model does represent.... REALITY. Does.... YOURS? (hint: no)

And I'm still looking forward to your reply on the specific mechanism that enables Southern star trails
I already replied. Celestial gears.


Celestial gears: Oh man, that's a great one.  Does anyone have to lube the gear bearings or is there a celestial grease gun?



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Flat Earth Debate / Re: What is the Sun?
« Last post by garygreen on July 23, 2017, 06:40:59 PM »
Gary, the lunar ephemeris only tells us the coordinates of the moon. It does not tell us when the next lunar eclipse will occur.

https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEpubs/5MCSE.html

Quote
The coordinates of the Sun used in these predictions are based on the VSOP87 theory [Bretagnon and Francou, 1988]. The Moon's coordinates are based on the ELP-2000/82 theory [Chapront-Touze and Chapront, 1983].

so, just to be clear, you're acknowledging that these predictions are based on tables of coordinates of the sun and moon as described by these two ephemerides, yes?  doesn't that kind of undercut your argument that they're based on saros cycles?

knowing the positions of the moon and sun is exactly how you predict future eclipses.  if you know where the moon and sun are located at any given time, then you can work out if an eclipse is happening at any given time.  more accurately, you can work out the "besselian" elements:



if you're a computer-nerd with a bunch of computer-nerd friends, then you can work out these elements for any given time over the next 1,000 years and put it in a big catalog with fancy maps and shit.  and you'd call it the five millennium canon of solar eclipses.

You are also WRONG that the "Five Millennium Cannon of Solar Eclipses" makes its solar eclipse predictions bases on a table of ephemeris predictions or any three-body problem solution. Here is an excerpt from a PDF which explains how the Five Millennium Cannon of Solar Eclipses was made:

it explicitly says that they do.  you have yet to produce a single source that says otherwise.

here are more excerpts:

Quote
Without exception, all solar eclipse canons produced during the latter half of the 20th century were based on Newcomb’s tables of the Sun (1895) and Brown’s lunar theory (1905), subject to later modifications in the Improved Lunar Ephemeris (1954). These were the best ephemerides of their day but they have now been superseded.

The present book contains detailed, accurate maps (found in the Appendix at the back of the book) for 5,000 years of solar eclipses, from –1999 to +3000 (2000 BCE to 3000 CE). The following points highlight the features and characteristics of this work.

*Based on modern theories of the Sun and the Moon constructed at the Bureau des Longitudes of Paris rather than the older Newcomb and Brown ephemerides.

Quote
Any two eclipses separated by one Saros cycle share similar characteristics. They occur at the same node with the Moon at nearly the same distance from Earth and at the same time of year. Because the Saros period is not equal to a whole number of days, its biggest drawback as an eclipse predictor is that subsequent eclipses are visible from different parts of the globe.

you obviously just did a search for the word saros, found it, and moved on.  you keep making the same mistake of taking "here is some information about saros cycles" to mean "saros cycles are the only way to predict when and where an eclipse will occur."  the section you quote absolutely does not say that saros cycles "explain how the Five Millennium Cannon of Solar Eclipses was made."  literally none of the sources you or i have provided have said anything like that. 

Show us an example where this or any other similar geometric theory has predicted the eclipse

the five millennium canon is exactly that.  check my last post.  i even pointed you to an open source python program that does this.
18
Flat Earth General / Re: Mind = Blown
« Last post by Hmmm on July 23, 2017, 06:39:08 PM »
Librium, you haven't seen the Honeycomb Earth theory yet by Vyacheslav Kotlyarov. Then your mind will be blown several times! It doesn't have enough evidence though.
The same man proposed/supports a hypothesis about Australia being Antarctica's peninsula, China and USA, Russian Syberia and Canada being on the same continent, and many more crazy things!
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Flat Earth Q&A / Re: What is this(Expanded earth)?
« Last post by TomInAustin on July 23, 2017, 06:33:42 PM »
I've been seeing this another theory of how earth looks. There is a youtuber i made one topic about, who also talks about more earth beyond ice borderwall.
What do you think?

I hope English is not the first language for the guy that uploaded that video.

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The Earth: what the Earth looks like, in fact, as a whole. Putting together a representation of the whole Earth even today isn't easy. A great deal of info in the flat Earth and plane plane-t and flat Earth-flat horizon along with flat Earth-flat water comprehension must be used for flat Earth evidence and that can be ascertained to be the most reliable. Tho the end product is simple for flat Earth believers and knowers, flat Earth clues, flat Earth explained and looking for the most reliable amount of info to do it takes time to analyze. NOTHING'S LEFT TO CHANCE. For all general and practical purposes this what the Earth looks like upwards of 80%-85%. Beyond that no info exist s in the public domain that I'm aware of.

If it is, it's a clue into the thought process or lack thereof.
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Flat Earth Q&A / What is this(Expanded earth)?
« Last post by Hmmm on July 23, 2017, 06:10:03 PM »
I've been seeing this another theory of how earth looks. There is a youtuber i made one topic about, who also talks about more earth beyond ice borderwall.
What do you think?