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Messages - Jura-Glenlivet

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581
You are a mass of contradictions, you apologise for taking the bait and straying into personal attacks and in your very next post you call Saddam arrogant and pretentious.

Your "alternative", "new ideas", are anything but, based as they are on 2,000 year old books.

You say you have studied evolution but if you have you have failed to understand it, as you continue to do also with thermodynamics, something I am surprised you dare quote as apparently scientists are wrong about everything else.

You claim that your logic is solid, in the face of everybody else who has expressed an opinion  seeing the holes.

You ask us why we haven't "looked at creationism as a realistic possibility", well it needs a creator as a first principle, something that if you called for the same rigorous amount of evidence you do for evolution would be a non starter. So you invoke faith, basically the suspension of that need for proof in favour of conviction based on said old books.

I have no doubt that you will be the last man standing here, please don't mistake that for winning the argument, as some one once said “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.”

582
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Diplomacy
« on: April 01, 2016, 01:07:42 PM »

It may be a pyrrhic victory but give the bastard a bloody nose as you go down, don't be remembered by your people as the ruler that rolled over, death to the invader!

583
I've been with many women just like you. Assumption after assumption and passive aggressive statement after statement bearing little to no resemblance to reality. As much as it disturbs me to point it out, the reality is most women, from my personal experience, are dominated by their emotions. Maybe you've never dated one, but reason and logic are not effective ways to resolve any conflict. This isn't just my opinion. This is a widely known consensus. Comedians joke about it, television shows and moves portray it, ancient philosophers pondered over it. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

What in God's name does this have to do with literally anything?
I threw him on ignore.  It seems to help.

The funny thing is some one seems to have told him that just because you have a beautiful woman as an avatar, that makes you a woman. I would seriously look at your life choices again if you have been with a woman like me!

It did serve to highlight the depths of his prejudice though.

584
For between true science and erroneous doctrines, ignorance is in the middle. - Hobbes

585
Arts & Entertainment / Re: FES Book Club
« on: March 31, 2016, 08:33:17 PM »

Apologies Rooster, it was the "his" that threw me. Another great book in the same vein is The Book of Lost Things by John Connolly

Just finished Dan Simmons "The Terror" A fictional telling of the ill fated Franklin trip to find the north west passage mixed up with horror and Innuit legends, excellent!

586

But time and time again you post stuff that just doesn't bear up to the slightest of tests, claiming 85% of the USA is with you, is just the last, and the figure for how many Americans don't believe in Humans developing from earlier species is nearer 40% according to a study in Science, with the amount that do about the same, so even in your backward leaning neck of the woods there is no consensus, the study looked at 32 European countries and Japan and apart from Turkey you were the lowest in believers, across most of Europe & Japan it was closer to 80% that do believe.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Views_on_Evolution.svg/960px-Views_on_Evolution.svg.png

 I don't have to insult your intellect, the fact you are unable to understand evolution, the laws of thermodynamics (see Rama above) or statistical analysis is testament enough.

When you had finished typing “ leave the logical, reason ruled conversation for the men. “  didn't you cringe just a little? Run it past a woman that is currently in your life at the moment, I'm guessing it will have to be your Mom.

587
Yet again you fail to check your own figures, 85% of Americans may well believe in a god but they sure as fuck don't all agree with you. In fact of those Americans in the largest 12 Christian denominations, 71% belong to churches that support evolution education, including Catholics, United Methodists, National baptist convention, Presbyterian church (USA), Lutherans & Episcopal churches.

The McLean Vs  Arkansas lawsuit against the balanced treatment for creation science and evolution science was instigated by the Reverend William McLean a United Methodist and 11 other clergy from differing religious groups.
So if you do actually believe any of the rubbish you post, it's from some back water fundamentalist standpoint that just a small percentage of loons accept.

But you don't have to check any thing because you are just trolling, you lose every argument have no one on your side but the troll goes on.

588
maybe get Saddam to do us a drawing?
(http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4808.0)

589
On mobile, so I wont be able to dissect your post, but just to be clear: there is still no experimental evidence of evolution. Correct?

And about your book metaphor... In actual realistic scenario, who is arranging the words? Who is changing the letters? If left up to time and nature alone, which unequivocally trends towards chaos aka entropy, you will end up with a book full of jibberish. You won't end up with an even more masterful piece of literature. It's more like assuming that given time a Dr. Zuess' Red Fish Blue Fish will become War and Peace.

Don't have the exact link but I've read about a computer simulation running over 15 billion times or something insane, just to properly sequence half of the alphabet in order. I will look for source when I'm on my computer, but you have to agree, extrapolating that to how complicated and precise our DNA has to replicate to result in healthy fertile offspring seems like a tough task.

Oh btw, happy Easter   ;D


How lucky you were on your mobile, because he demolished you, especially your childlike understanding of natural selection and environments.
And the book analogy A bit clumsy but if each of the changed words has to make sense (i.e. promote survival or at least not hinder it) it kind of works.
But still there is a wealth of studies that show evolution in action, the continued examination of ring species like the Ensatina salamander amongst many others.

But you want us to believe that we have always been here (with the dinosaurs?), that sky god pops in every now and then to give us some tablets and to sacrifice someone to prove the point, raise a city or two to the ground to prove some other thing, whilst insisting we worship it or else.
Give me science with its gradual uncovering of the beauty of natures workings over religion and its fear based mutterings any day.

590
Discredits creationist

Uses biblical metaphor to do so

New meme, ironic evolutionist.

I'll take that.

And take the mighty Saddams post as the best explanation of my hoax line, as you obviously need it spelling out.

591
I swear! Pearls before swine.

Quote
I did read it.
But didn't get the bit about the numbers.

Quote
Could have started
Of course "could" it was billions of years ago you muppet.

Quote
I didn't claim to be an authority on fossils.
And trust me no one is mistaking you for one, but don't write as if you are.

Quote
Are you doubting that hoaxes have occurred?
No read it  s l o w l y.

Not sure if I should have given you the benefit of the doubt now.



592
So you have established you don't do probability too well and you don't understand evolution.
When?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/eric-metaxas-science-increasingly-makes-the-case-for-god-1419544568
http://blogs.plos.org/mitsciwrite/2011/12/31/life-the-universe-and-everything-what-are-the-odds/
http://evolutionfaq.com/articles/probability-life
http://www.reasons.org/articles/probability-for-life-on-earth
http://www.science20.com/stars_planets_life/calculating_odds_life_could_begin_chance

Most numbers there are quoted as 1 in 10big fucking giant, unfathomable number. And there are some articles there attempt to narrow that number down and the best they can do is 1 in 1040. Still a tall order in what, 14 billion year old universe?

Let's go back to a good point made by our Lord Dave earlier and see if we can pin down any of your beliefs.

Hopefully you admit there are Fossils, and NASA hasn't been burying them in our gardens, rivers and cliffs to confuse us. If so most of these don't exist anymore, pterodactyls, Ichthyosaurs , Stegosaurus, smilodon etc. there are insects, arachnids, crustaceans fish etc. but not the ones we have now (I have a sea urchin dug from my garden), but the further you go back i.e. looking at lower strata, or using relative faunal succession, radioactive decay , magnetic field switches, mammals disappear, in fact none of the mammals currently running around are present in the fossil record at all.

You do realize 90% of fossils are things like teeth, partial jaw bones, etc. It's also interesting no one found anything notable in the history of excavation in any massive project in recorded history, but once Darwin came around, people were finding them in droves. All of a sudden there was a litany of finds, all by people with a very vested interest in finding them. Validation, fame, money. How many times do we have to find out the missing links were hoaxes perpetrated by desperate men?

You are putting entirely too much weight of your argument into the "fossil record."  It is hopelessly incomplete, for many of the reasons others have listed in this thread. It is a complete fallacy to think it offers any accurate snapshot of history life on this earth.

So why for much of the record were there no mammals, why are there no modern ones in the record and how if there is no evolution did they all of a sudden appear?

Not every animal gets fossilized. Mammals are barely represented in the "record," so to use that as a means to prove forms of the mammals we see today weren't alive is flimsy. But sure, animals go extinct. Obviously. A lot of the links to living animals are purely hypothetical and are actually still heavily debated.

It's not a slam dunk to assume evolution is what made single cell organisms eventually (in a relatively short amount of time) turn into humans, and even IF it is the cause, a very big IF, it STILL doesn't account for HOW LIFE BEGAN IN THE FIRST PLACE!

I have pretty much decided that you are a Gainsaying troll, the alternative to this is you have a massively overinflated view of your own meagre knowledge, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and go for the former.

Here’s why;

In your rebuttal based on very big numbers you add a bunch of links, in the third that mentions the number 1040 specifically, is the quote.

“Though, to be fair, 1040 is still a very large number. It would still take an incredibly large number of sequential trials before the peptide would form. But remember that in the prebiotic oceans of the early Earth, there would be billions of trials taking place simultaneously as the oceans, rich in amino acids, were continuously churned by the tidal forces of the moon and the harsh weather conditions of the Earth.

In fact, if we assume the volume of the oceans were 1024 litres, and the amino acid concentration was 10-6M (which is actually very dilute), then almost 1031 self-replicating peptides would form in under a year, let alone millions of years. So, even given the difficult chances of 1 in 1040, the first stages of abiogenesis could have started very quickly indeed.”

So, you either never read it or …(see my first line).

You then erroneously state that “no one found anything notable” until Darwin.
Have you even checked this? Origin of species – 1859, Megalosaurus bucklandi named in 1827, Richard Owen’s (an opponent of Darwin but dino’ man) Dinosauria – 1842, the Crystal Palace Dinosaur sculptures representing 15 genera’s of extinct animals 1852, Mary Anning (she sells sea shells) for gods sake 1799-1847  and so on.
Megalosaurus bones had been recorded much earlier in the 17th century and had been catalogued as both a Roman war Elephant and a biblical giant, that from memory and a quick search for confirmation.
No way couldn’t you have found this or any number of other examples, unless… (See first line).

Hoaxes? Misinterpretations? Where humans/money are involved, seriously! Proved to be hoaxes by scientists not priests or (See first line)?

I could go on down your list of badly researched tirade but you get my drift.

And then finally, “it STILL doesn't account for HOW LIFE BEGAN IN THE FIRST PLACE!” Well no shit Sherlock! Nobody is saying it does! But science is the process of trying by incremental steps, each building on the former to join the dots, we may never know, but how is that either a surprise or an argument? If you stretch out your arms either side of you, take that width as a representation of the age of the Earth, the whole of human history would be erased with one stroke of a nail file. That is how insignificant we are, that is the relative time span you expect science to have all the answers for, all in the scrape of a file.

The truth is on here, but you can’t handle the truth.

593
Arts & Entertainment / Re: FES Book Club
« on: March 23, 2016, 03:08:08 PM »
Neil Gaiman - The Ocean at the End of the Lane

It's the first Neil Gaiman book I'm reading, though I've wanted to read his work for quite some time.
I loved it.

Only childhood has that kind of magic and pain. Kinda made me want to read through His Dark Materials again.
But instead I'm now reading..



Think Dark Materials was Pullman, Gaiman wrote Stardust & Coraline, both good although the film is actually better as far as Stardust's concerned, probably cos' it has Michelle Pfeiffer in it, and Clare Danes, oh and Sienna Miller.

Of his childhood oriented novels The Graveyard Book is excellent, but read American Gods (for adult) which is the bollocks!

594

So you have established you don't do probability too well and you don't understand evolution.

Let's go back to a good point made by our Lord Dave earlier and see if we can pin down any of your beliefs.

Hopefully you admit there are Fossils, and NASA hasn't been burying them in our gardens, rivers and cliffs to confuse us. If so most of these don't exist anymore, pterodactyls, Ichthyosaurs , Stegosaurus, smilodon etc. there are insects, arachnids, crustaceans fish etc. but not the ones we have now (I have a sea urchin dug from my garden), but the further you go back i.e. looking at lower strata, or using relative faunal succession, radioactive decay , magnetic field switches, mammals disappear, in fact none of the mammals currently running around are present in the fossil record at all.

So why for much of the record were there no mammals, why are there no modern ones in the record and how if there is no evolution did they all of a sudden appear?

595
Arts & Entertainment / Re: FES Book Club
« on: March 22, 2016, 04:11:34 PM »
Neil Gaiman - The Ocean at the End of the Lane

It's the first Neil Gaiman book I'm reading, though I've wanted to read his work for quite some time.

It's a grand book!

596

Back to something you mentioned earlier, not having missing links in evolution, you might find this interesting. http://earthsky.org/earth/chameleon-in-amber-is-worlds-oldest

597
Flat Earth Media / Re: Illustrations for Education Purposes
« on: March 17, 2016, 10:09:08 PM »

Orbi' bless him, has gone on to pastures new I'm afraid.

598
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Anthropogenic Climate Change
« on: March 17, 2016, 11:31:38 AM »
The source of that article is one of those satirical* fake-news websites:

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/edward-snowden-global-warming-is-an-invention-of-the-cia/

In other words, it's not true.  I'm not surprised that crank websites have been eagerly spreading it around, though.

*I call it "satirical," but I don't think that website is genuinely trying to entertain people.  I recommend reading this article on the subject.

Well I am truly shocked! Here was a man whose judgement on all things I trusted implicitly, surely he didn’t just grab this, without checking, because it confirmed what he thought he already knew?
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-with-bullshit-detector-seems-to-believe-a-lot-of-bullshit-20151208104550

599

Well finally you are right about one thing, almost.

“Just because you believe your existence to be bleak, meaningless, and insignificant --which coincidentally fits in perfect with the scientific view of the cosmos “

The view you are desperately peddling is one where Humanity and by inclusion you, are the centre of all things, be it gods plan, the conspiracy or the universe itself.
Paranoia and narcissism are flip sides of the coin you keep tossing, therefore the fear of insignificance that the scientific view inevitably leads to, has to be kept at bay by any means.

However, life can still be fun and I am having a whale of a time, even though ultimately life is meaningless and everything does die.

600

Just a few points, (as you don't seem to be able to assimilate more);

Isaiah, from a cursory check was a 7th century BC bloke from Judah,  not 14th century BC and Aristarchus  & Seleucus  were Greeks.

Great flood themes on a world whose surface is 71% ocean is hardly a surprise (two catastrophic Tsunamis in the last decade).

The Human circulatory system has nothing to do with lucky coincidence, but evolution, a concept you will struggle with (see “man evolved from a monkey”), so don't bother. There is a greater force that's going to make it all, all right.

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