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Messages - Tom Bishop

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41
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 29, 2017, 04:10:55 AM »
Um......Tom, we did find planets like Neptune that can't be seen with naked eye.

Incorrect. Please see the chapter The Planet Neptune in Earth Not a Globe.


Quote
We have also discovered very distant orbiting objects like Pluto, asteroids, dwarf planets, and comets all with telescopes.  You can't those with naked eye yet we found them.

This example is a bad one. The discoverer was photographing the same part of the sky over and over again in a telescope and accidentally discovered Pluto. It was not until the last the last 30 years that it was discovered that there are actually many similar dwarf planet orbiting the sun the size of Pluto and that it's nothing special. This is why Pluto is no longer a planet. There are many similar bodies that exist in the solar system.

https://theplanets.org/dwarf-planets/

According to this link we are nowhere close to finding all of the dwarf planets in the solar system and there may be as many as 10,000 in the solar system yet to be discovered. It's not easy to discover things that have to be found with a telescope. How does this correlate with your assertion that these things are so easily discoverable?

42
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 28, 2017, 08:35:42 PM »
Yea, 68 years of infrared astronomy and we just keep on missing it.

Who is looking for it?

No one, but is kind of odd that in all the infrared pictures taken of the sun, this object is still undiscovered.

If we could not see the stars or celestial bodies with the naked eye, and our only access to the heavens were through observatory telescopes, we would have never discovered the planets.

43
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 28, 2017, 06:42:22 PM »
Yea, 68 years of infrared astronomy and we just keep on missing it.

Who is looking for it?

44
Flat Earth General / Re: Boy, NASA sure has a lot of pics
« on: April 28, 2017, 06:39:27 PM »
Ah, yes, another collection of, uh, this:



An odd choice, to put a 1980's digital camera onto a 3 billion dollar spacecraft.

45
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 28, 2017, 05:05:03 PM »
Tom, a sky survey isn't random.  They are methodically done over many years, with many observations of the entire visible sky, and at mutiple times through out the year.  That is how they detect the proper and paralax motion of celestial​ objects.  Sky surveys are incredibly rigorous.  An object with an angular diameter of .5° is absolutely massive.  Sky surveys are detecting movements smaller than .0003 degrees.  Every object get cataloged and measured for motion over many years.  An oject of .5° to go undetected by any form of imaging is rediculous.  We also monitor the sun and the surrounding area daily with multiple imaging scemes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion#/media/File%3A61_Cygni_Proper_Motion.gif

Infrared observatories are only capable of capturing a small amount of sky at a time. No matter how methodological you study the sky with a stirring straw, you are probably going to miss the sun and moon if you start scanning the sky from the eastern horizon and snake your way, with 2 or 3 second picture intervals, all the way across to the western horizon. They are moving bodies and your progression is very slow.

If the "dark object" also causes the lunar eclipses, then why does it not block out the stars in the sky surrounding the moon as it moves into position in front of the moon?

Apparently, this object only orbits the sun, shrouded in the sun's light in order to remain invisble to laymen eyes.

Is funny that this object is still a secret since we have in our power infrared telescopes that are able to take termal images of the celestial bodies.

So a lunar eclipse happens when the shadow object is lined up between the sun and the moon as described in the wiki. That would seem to make it pretty easy to know where to look for it in the sky during a lunar eclipse...just look along a line from the sun to the moon. So that would not require a survey of the entire sky, but a very small portion of it.

Perhaps, but it still seems like a big portion of sky. Unfortunately we do not know any infrared astronomers who would be willing to put this hypothesis to the test.

47
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 28, 2017, 03:53:54 AM »
If the "dark object" also causes the lunar eclipses, then why does it not block out the stars in the sky surrounding the moon as it moves into position in front of the moon?

Apparently, this object only orbits the sun, shrouded in the sun's light in order to remain invisble to laymen eyes.

Is funny that this object is still a secret since we have in our power infrared telescopes that are able to take termal images of the celestial bodies.

Infrared observatories are only able to capture a very small section of the sky at a time when a picture is taken. Infrared telescopes don't see a large part of the sky. They are dishes which look at tiny sections of the sky, or are large deeply recessed observatory sized optical telescopes. And observatory telescopes don't "zoom out". It's like looking at the sky with a drinking straw. They are unreliable to catch something if you do not know where and when it will be.

This infrared sky map, for instance, was taken by stitching thousands of squares of sky together over a long period of time.
Yea.  Do you really believe that multiple  observatories that operate for years and do entire  surveys just keep missing objects that are large enough to block out the sun and moon?

Both the sun and moon have an angular size of 0.5 degrees. Not very big. Take a straw and spin around in circles outside and randomly point it in the sky and look through it and tell me what chances you think you have of looking at the sun or the moon.

Considering some of these observatories, a stirring straw may even be a more appropriate analogy.

48
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 27, 2017, 11:36:32 PM »
If the "dark object" also causes the lunar eclipses, then why does it not block out the stars in the sky surrounding the moon as it moves into position in front of the moon?

Apparently, this object only orbits the sun, shrouded in the sun's light in order to remain invisble to laymen eyes.

Is funny that this object is still a secret since we have in our power infrared telescopes that are able to take termal images of the celestial bodies.

Infrared observatories are only able to capture a very small section of the sky at a time when a picture is taken. Infrared telescopes don't see a large part of the sky. They are dishes which look at tiny sections of the sky, or are large deeply recessed observatory sized optical telescopes. And observatory telescopes don't "zoom out". It's like looking at the sky with a drinking straw. They are unreliable to catch something if you do not know where and when it will be.

This infrared sky map, for instance, was taken by stitching thousands of squares of sky together over a long period of time.

49
The mass energy equivalence formula is part of Special Relativity. General Relativity deals with gravity and has never really been proven.

We don't typically hold GR with much regard, nor the Graviton hypothesis of Quantum Mechanics.

50
I was watching some videos made by flat earthers and they made comments about how nuclear weapons and nuclear power are hoaxes.  Is this a commonly held belief among flat earthers or are those people more on the fringe?  The reason why I ask is I was a Submarine Officer in the US Navy (all submarines in the US Navy are Nuclear) for 9 years and I was frequently in charge of the engine room and the reactor.  I am curious how flat earthers could explain how my submarine could remain submerged for months at a time without ventilating if we didn't have a nuclear reactor.  What power system could move a 7,000 ton submarine at 20+ knots without oxygen?  All surface ship propulsion (with exception to Nuclear Aircraft Carriers) requires oxygen to function.  Other countries use batteries or AIP for their submarines but their submarines are much smaller, weight much less, are much slower and can't stay submerged as long.

Nuclear Bombs = Real
Nuclear Power = Real
ICBMs that can get into space and travel half way "around" the world sub-orbitally = Fake
Why would ICBMs be fake? Are cannons fake as well? If I throw something really hard at a 45 degree angle, it'll basically take a path much like what you'd expect from a suborbital flight, minus the altitude.

I have a really hard time figuring out why this is so difficult to understand for an adult with an obvious ability to read.

Long range ICBMs which go into space sub-orbitally are relying on the earth being round and the ability to slingshot around the earth via 'gravity'. Without that orbital assist those types of rockets are not capable of reaching the foreign enemies we need them to reach. They really only have enough fuel and power to get into space at the right velocity before they start dropping. Hitler was unable to get his V2 rockets onto such a path, which is why the range was limited to about 200 miles and therefore unable to reach American targets.

I was watching some videos made by flat earthers and they made comments about how nuclear weapons and nuclear power are hoaxes.  Is this a commonly held belief among flat earthers or are those people more on the fringe?  The reason why I ask is I was a Submarine Officer in the US Navy (all submarines in the US Navy are Nuclear) for 9 years and I was frequently in charge of the engine room and the reactor.  I am curious how flat earthers could explain how my submarine could remain submerged for months at a time without ventilating if we didn't have a nuclear reactor.  What power system could move a 7,000 ton submarine at 20+ knots without oxygen?  All surface ship propulsion (with exception to Nuclear Aircraft Carriers) requires oxygen to function.  Other countries use batteries or AIP for their submarines but their submarines are much smaller, weight much less, are much slower and can't stay submerged as long.

Nuclear Bombs = Real
Nuclear Power = Real
ICBMs that can get into space and travel half way "around" the world sub-orbitally = Fake

So does that mean that flat earthers also believe in general relativity and quantum mechanics?  The reason why I ask is that using those theories is essential in order to operate the reactor safely.  If flat earthers don't believe in those theories then how have we operated reactors for 60 years in the Navy without any issue?

What does GR have to do with operating a reactor safely?

51
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 27, 2017, 04:32:45 PM »
The moon disappears when it is near the sun, just like any other planet or celestial body. I don't find anything convenient about it. There is a massive area of the sky near the sun which we know nothing about.

52
"The Astronomical Almanac is the direct descendant of the British and American navigational almanacs. The British Nautical Almanac and Astronomical Ephemeris had been published since 1766, and was renamed The Astronomical Ephemeris in 1960. The American Ephemeris and Nautical Almanac had been published since 1852. In 1981 the British and American publications were combined under the title The Astronomical Almanac."

More info is here: http://astro.ukho.gov.uk/nao/publicat/asa.html

Another source is this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_Tables_of_the_Sun

"Newcomb's Tables were the basis for practically all ephemerides of the Sun published from 1900 through 1983, including the annual almanacs of the U.S. Naval Observatory and the Royal Greenwich Observatory. The tables are seldom used now; since the Astronomical Almanac for 1984 they have been superseded by more accurate numerically-integrated ephemerides developed at Jet Propulsion Laboratory, based on much more accurate observations than were available to Newcomb. Also, the tables did not account for the effects of general relativity which was unknown at the time. Nevertheless, his tabulated values remain accurate to within a few seconds of arc to this day." (emphasis added).

So the calculators have even been improved to become more and more accurate over time based on more recent observations, although the earlier calculations were remarkably correct also.

Nirmala,

Look at the words "Ephemeris" and "ephemerides" in the sources you provided.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemeris

Quote
Modern ephemerides are often computed electronically from mathematical models of the motion of astronomical objects and the Earth. Even though the calculation of these tables was one of the first applications of mechanical computers, printed ephemerides are still produced, as they are useful when computational devices are not available.

53
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Upcoming Solar Eclipse in USA
« on: April 27, 2017, 03:43:21 AM »
Apparently, some "dark object", blocks the light from both the sun and moon on their respective eclipses, wich only appears during eclipses, for the rest of the time, it remains "invisible" [makes wavy gestures with fingers]

How visible would a celestial object orbiting around the sun and always in the daytime be?

54
I was watching some videos made by flat earthers and they made comments about how nuclear weapons and nuclear power are hoaxes.  Is this a commonly held belief among flat earthers or are those people more on the fringe?  The reason why I ask is I was a Submarine Officer in the US Navy (all submarines in the US Navy are Nuclear) for 9 years and I was frequently in charge of the engine room and the reactor.  I am curious how flat earthers could explain how my submarine could remain submerged for months at a time without ventilating if we didn't have a nuclear reactor.  What power system could move a 7,000 ton submarine at 20+ knots without oxygen?  All surface ship propulsion (with exception to Nuclear Aircraft Carriers) requires oxygen to function.  Other countries use batteries or AIP for their submarines but their submarines are much smaller, weight much less, are much slower and can't stay submerged as long.

Nuclear Bombs = Real
Nuclear Power = Real
ICBMs that can get into space and travel half way "around" the world sub-orbitally = Fake

55
In Rounder's comment, you are the random stranger. He is saying that anyone who takes your advice is foolish.

Since this thread seems to be getting thousands of views I've added a disclaimer to the OP instructing people to consult a medical professional before exploring a path of self treatment.

56
I think it's important not to dissuade people from seeking orthodox medical treatments.

Tom what you are doing is borderline immoral, giving people diet tips is fine but you are doing harm to people of you discourage them for seeking professional help.

Anyone who takes medical advice from a random stranger on the internet has only themselves to blame for their "treatment" outcomes.  Just saying.

It's a good thing I have been citing medical research studies then, isn't it?

57
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 26, 2017, 03:31:54 AM »
Of course Trump is doing this to benefit himself. Are we really going to entertain the notion that this might be an altruistic act? He lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when he refused to both release his tax returns and divest from his holdings.

The American people voted him into office to do this, who are all very well aware that it would lower Trump's taxes as well. This is what the voters wanted. Shaming Trump, when he has been candid about lowering taxes from the very beginning, and voted in democratically to enact that plan, is incredibly duplicitous.

58
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 26, 2017, 03:15:10 AM »
I didn't criticize Trekky's link. I criticized Trekky, who stated that Trump is going to save a whole lot of money with his plan, as if Trump were doing it for that purpose.

Again, you seem to be jumping to conclusions.  Is the fact that the plan benefits Trump personally in doubt, and if not, what exactly was incorrect about Trekky's comment?

It wasn't a mere statement of fact. Does it appear that we are posting irrelevant statement of facts in this thread? Trump was born on June 14th. Trump has blond hair. Is that what we are doing here?

No, that is not what Trekky is doing. The sentence he wrote implies that Trump sought office for financial gain, which is insulting and ridiculous since he already won that game many years ago. Trekky ignores the fact that he was voted into office to lower taxes because that is that the American people wanted, who were all well aware that it would lower Trump's taxes as well.

59
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 26, 2017, 02:52:21 AM »
Trekky is apparently not aware of it, since his implication is that Trump is lowering taxes to benefit himself; when in truth a major part of why people voted him in is because they wanted personal and business taxes lowered.

Can't it both benefit Trump and be something voters wanted?

Sure. Lowering taxes benefits the American people, and Trump is an American person. Building the wall is also something that will benefit both Trump and American people by helping to keep drugs out of the country. Are we going to start seeing accusations saying that Trump is just building the wall so he can live in a country with less drugs?

Quote from: Roundy
Still not seeing where you draw that conclusion.  In fact the article Trekky links to directly states that he's trying to make good on his campaign promises so unless you think Trekky linked an article he didn't actually read I think we can safely assume he knows that it was one of Trump's key promises in the election.

I didn't criticize Trekky's link. I criticized Trekky, who stated that Trump is going to save a whole lot of money with his plan, as if Trump were doing it for that purpose.

60
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 26, 2017, 02:25:59 AM »
According to the Wall Street Journal, Trump is planning to cut the top tax rate for owner-operated businesses from 39.6% to 15%, which would dramatically reduce taxes on Trump's real estate empire.

Lowering taxes has been part of the plan since the beginning and a huge part of his campaign. It's a big reason for why many people voted for him. Have you not been paying attention?

I'm having trouble seeing which part of Trekky's post indicates that he wasn't aware of this.  ???

Trekky is apparently not aware of it, since his implication is that Trump is lowering taxes to benefit himself; when in truth a major part of why people voted him in is because they wanted personal and business taxes lowered.

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