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### Messages - Tom Bishop

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21
##### Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Both the Ice Wall and Bipolar maps are wrong, why don't you think of new models?
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:48:01 PM »
The evidence for your assertion was that it was "common knowledge". I just assumed that you had no further intellectual stimulation to contribute towards the topic.

22
##### Flat Earth General / Re: The Moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:31:19 PM »
You are assuming that large scale perspective works in that manner.

I can only assume this was a response to my proof.  Perspective and viewing angle are not the same thing. The diagram as simple as it is, took all of 2 minutes, is all the proof anyone needs that  3 viewers at the distances used would see totally different views and features of the moon.  There is no evidence and in fact, it is plain silly to think that people on one side could see the other side because it is totally blocked.  The distances are not relevant, it could be 3 feet, 3 miles, 3000 miles.  The viewing angle is what dictates what we can see.

Case closed.

Next

Please back up your ideas for how perspective works at that scale with an example of where we have seen distant objects turn to perspective like that.

23
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:04:11 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

If it is 90 degrees from zenith, then it is one the horizon. Earth is round. Perspective, and please read this carefully, does NOT change positions of objects. The sun, according to FET NEVER GETS LOWER TO THE GROUND. (at least substantially since I guess the sun and moon magically bob around up there) Light travels in a straight line and will never illuminate the bottoms of clouds, etc, yet you can see this every day. You misuse perspective to huge extent and you know it.

In a railroad perspective scene the tracks of a railroad can ascend in height to your eye level. Why can't the sun descend to your eye level?

24
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 01:25:49 PM »
I've shown you this before, multiple times. We have an equation for these times, and it's based in part on the rotational velocity of the Earth. Do the times this gives match those of timeanddate? I don't know, I honestly can't really make a good heads or tails of the equation. But I don't care to try and spend enough time with it, as I trust it's accurate information. Feel free to show us it's significantly wrong though.

That information is clearly conflicting with timeanddate. According to the diagram on your link it says that the equator receives constant 14 hour days throughout the year. According to dateandtime the city of pontianak, which is on the equator, is going to see a little over 12 hours of daylight today. In fact, according to dateandtime, however true or false those predictions might be, that location on the equator will never experience a 14 hour day.

You apparently did not do any research at all into this subject. Why should we assume that your source is accurate and agrees with all other sources?

25
##### Flat Earth General / Re: A misunderstanding
« on: August 18, 2017, 01:08:11 PM »
Smokified, for now i think, that the moon is local for a region, i.e. there are multiples of moons. I suppose, the light is projected simultaneously from the moon's face/disk module(there could be modules of the whole system) and from around it's metallic sphere/spheroid core. The craters and shadows on the moon are just a, possibly holographic, textures, like in video games or decorations at theater. So if hypothesis i'm retranslating is correct, then any calculations based on moon craters are pointless. The purpose of textures is to trick us in believing, so we can give out chi-energy/life energy we generate for latter exploitation.
Quote
, and it is certainly not artificial.
Are you sure?
Quote
Humanity doesn't have the capability to build celestial bodies
We don't, rulers of the world do. What if it's not humanity, who built moon you're seeing almost everyday?
Quote
1/8th the size of earth
There are moonrises and moonsets too!
why do think the moon is as large as our planet? Just observe attentively the moon everyday, whenever you can, from different locations for two months and see if it doesn't looks like it's orbiting/flying close to ground.
We know for a fact how far away the moon is, due to the LRRs, or Lunar Rangefinding Reflectors, left there during the Apollo missions. Anyone from around the world can bounce a laser off one of those and knowing the speed of light calculate how far away the moon is. It isn't close to the ground.

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2989.msg70072#msg70072
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/apollo_11/experiments/lrr/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment

There have been multiple observatories that have checked this, over many many years, from a number of different countries. Explain how every single one is getting the same results, and why the conspiracy has decided the moon should be moving away at 3.8 cm per year. I would note these tests also tie in and help prove portions of the Theory of Relativity.

Those sources are quoting NASA facilities and NASA laser range finding projects at the McDonald Observatory. Please show us an example of a laser range finding project not associated with NASA.

26
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 18, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

27
##### Flat Earth General / Re: A misunderstanding
« on: August 18, 2017, 12:32:18 PM »
Smokified, for now i think, that the moon is local for a region, i.e. there are multiples of moons. I suppose, the light is projected simultaneously from the moon's face/disk module(there could be modules of the whole system) and from around it's metallic sphere/spheroid core. The craters and shadows on the moon are just a, possibly holographic, textures, like in video games or decorations at theater. So if hypothesis i'm retranslating is correct, then any calculations based on moon craters are pointless. The purpose of textures is to trick us in believing, so we can give out chi-energy/life energy we generate for latter exploitation.
Quote
, and it is certainly not artificial.
Are you sure?
Quote
Humanity doesn't have the capability to build celestial bodies
We don't, rulers of the world do. What if it's not humanity, who built moon you're seeing almost everyday?
Quote
1/8th the size of earth
There are moonrises and moonsets too!
why do think the moon is as large as our planet? Just observe attentively the moon everyday, whenever you can, from different locations for two months and see if it doesn't looks like it's orbiting/flying close to ground.
We know for a fact how far away the moon is, due to the LRRs, or Lunar Rangefinding Reflectors, left there during the Apollo missions. Anyone from around the world can bounce a laser off one of those and knowing the speed of light calculate how far away the moon is. It isn't close to the ground.

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2989.msg70072#msg70072

28
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 12:00:59 PM »
How? What is the mechanism that makes the sun and the moon 'bounce' up and down above us? Or is it the same one that moves the sun from it's North Pole orbit to it's South Pole orbit in the dual pole model?

As empericists we are only permitted to say that, while the movements are visible to us, the mechanism is unknown.
Then how have you observed this movement? How do you know that's what's happening? How is what you see only explained by a Flat Earth?

The movement is observed via analemma. We know its happening because we see it happening. We have not claimed that a Flat Earth is the only possible explanation.
But 'you' would agree that the analemma and data in timeanddate.com is correct for your location.  What explanations do you have other than a flat earth?  You are avoiding any investigation though observations and measurement, not even specifying how you might start.

It would need to be shown that the timeanddate.com data is based on a Round Earth model rather than a pattern-based model.

29
##### Flat Earth General / Re: The Moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:57:30 AM »
Is there any evidence that it changes as you declare it should though? Because if there is I haven't seen you trot it out.

All observations of very distant objects show that they do not rotate as significantly as theorized. The fact that the moon does not turn (significantly), that Saturn does not tilt, and that the stars do not build up and change configuration at the horizon line, is evidence that those assumptions for how perspective should work at large scales is incorrect.

30
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:37:37 AM »
How? What is the mechanism that makes the sun and the moon 'bounce' up and down above us? Or is it the same one that moves the sun from it's North Pole orbit to it's South Pole orbit in the dual pole model?

As empericists we are only permitted to say that, while the movements are visible to us, the mechanism is unknown.
Then how have you observed this movement? How do you know that's what's happening? How is what you see only explained by a Flat Earth?

The movement is observed via analemma. We know its happening because we see it happening. We have not claimed that a Flat Earth is the only possible explanation.

31
##### Flat Earth Q&A / Re: How Big Is The NASA conspiracy?
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:26:16 AM »
OK so what do you think about my cousin then? it sounds like he is just being lied too.

IF you hold with FE beliefs then you'd have to say that right now, he's being lied to - but once he gets more deeply into the subject, there is no possibility that he could not learn "The Truth" - so he'd either have to sign up to the conspiracy - or "come out" as a Flat Earther and give up astronomy, which he'd then know were a pack of lies.

There are a LOT of astronomers in the world...I don't think any of them gave it up when they discovered that they'd be lied to for all this time...so for FE to be tenable, you'd have to believe that 100% of astronomers are intellectually dishonest people who signed up to the conspiracy...and that having done that, not a single one changed their minds and revealed the truth to the world.

That's not just true of the present day - the conspiracy must go back many hundreds of years.

Astronomers aren't liars. They are merely mistaken.

32
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: How does FET explain these very simple errors
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:14:32 AM »
The theory of Stellar Fusion uses a different mechanism/reaction sequence, and has never been demonstrated in a lab or a bomb.

Tom, you are 100% incorrect. Stellar fusion and weapon fusion are the exact same process. Hydrogen atoms are compressed together, the fuse into helium atom, the resultant atom weighs less than 2 two hydrogen atoms. The lost mass is converted to energy. (E=MC^2) In the Sun, the compressive force is gravity. In a fusion bomb, the compressive force is provided by a fission bomb that sets off the fusion reaction.

Waiting for the deuterium complaint....

The proton-proton chain reaction is only theorized to occur in stars. There is nothing about it being used in weapons, according to its Wiki article.

33
##### Flat Earth General / Re: The Moon
« on: August 18, 2017, 03:11:17 AM »
You are assuming that large scale perspective works in that manner.
Why would it not?  How would it actually change?

We already went over that in this thread. There is no evidence for those Ancient Greek ideas of how perspective works at large scales.

34
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:53:51 PM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

I see planes lit from the bottom all the time. Even more convincing is that fact that you can go out any morning/evening when their are some clouds in the sky and see they are lit from the bottom. Perspective cannot cause light to illuminate the underside of clouds if the light source is above the clouds. Your willingness to ignore evidence that you are clearly wrong, while basing your views on outdated material, is very odd.

The answer is that due to perspective, the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds from the side. The back end of the cloud is facing you, and the cloud is semi-transparent, so it appears as if the cloud is illuminated from the bottom.

35
##### Flat Earth General / Re: The Moon
« on: August 17, 2017, 08:04:40 PM »
You are assuming that large scale perspective works in that manner.

36
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 17, 2017, 05:00:01 PM »
How? What is the mechanism that makes the sun and the moon 'bounce' up and down above us? Or is it the same one that moves the sun from it's North Pole orbit to it's South Pole orbit in the dual pole model?

As empericists we are only permitted to say that, while the movements are visible to us, the mechanism is unknown.

37
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 17, 2017, 11:43:39 AM »
Your usual unhelpful answer.  It was not true then or now and I am sure you know that.

Why would the London Journal lie about this subject?

Quote
Equipment list for determining the shape of the earth please.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?

38
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 17, 2017, 11:41:33 AM »
Your link tells us about the earth

Equatorial Radius:    6,378.1 km
Polar Radius:    6,356.8 km
Rotational Flattening:    0.00335
Mass:    5.9736 trillion trillion tons

That is the Round Earth Theory, yes.

39
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:40:26 AM »
Any recent explanations?

Why? Does truth have an expiration date?

40
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:20:35 AM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon

Quote
When one observes the phases of the moon he sees the moon's day and night, a shadow created from the sun illuminating half of the spherical moon at any one time.

The lunar phases vary cyclically according to the changing geometry of the Moon and Sun, which are constantly wobbling up and down and exchange altitudes as they rotate around the North Pole.

When the moon and sun are at the same altitude one half of the lunar surface is illuminated and pointing towards the sun, This is called the First Quarter Moon. When the observer looks up he will see a shadow cutting the moon in half. The boundary between the illuminated and unilluminated hemispheres is called the terminator.

When the moon is below the sun's altitude the moon is dark and a New Moon occurs.

When the moon is above the altitude of the sun the moon is fully lit and a Full Moon occurs.

The time between two full moons, or between successive occurrences of the same phase, is about 29.53 days (29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes) on average. This denotes the cycle of alternating altitudes.

Also check out the Moon's Monthly Analemma. We can see it moving up and downwards over the course of its lunar cycle in relation the the ecliptic:

http://www.skymarvels.com/news2010-10.htm

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