Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 07, 2017, 03:45:21 PM »
We have research stations in Antarctica. Just like there are some in the Arctic. How does the FE model explain their summer being continuous daylight, just like what happens in the Arctic region? The models for a flat Earth I've seen has Antarctica as a ring around the Earth, which wouldn't allow this to happen based on the movement of the sun. So how is this accounted for under FET?

*

Offline Dither

  • *
  • Posts: 529
  • The night above the dingle starry,
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 11:40:53 PM »
How does the FE model explain their summer being continuous daylight,

A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

Offline Oami

  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 07:11:17 AM »


Can you answer using your own words rather than linking to a 44-min video?

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 07:13:37 AM »
How does the FE model explain their summer being continuous daylight,


I can link a simple video showing the opposite. Or how about this one? Where does that leave us?

*

Offline Dither

  • *
  • Posts: 529
  • The night above the dingle starry,
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 09:06:50 AM »
Where does that leave us?

It leaves me questioning your curiosity.
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 02:29:29 PM »
Where does that leave us?

It leaves me questioning your curiosity.
What does that even mean? How is your video any more valid than the ones I posted? Or than the numerous personal accounts that are easy to dig up from scientists to boat captains?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 05:15:16 PM »
There are two magnetic and celestial poles in the most modern Flat Earth model. See The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions in our literature repository.

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 10:34:30 PM »
There are two magnetic and celestial poles in the most modern Flat Earth model. See The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions in our literature repository.
Once again, how is a sun that 'knows' when to move between two different orbits, more plausible than a spinning Earth? I'm also heavily curious how this idea works with the map of the Flat Earth as laid out. There's no way for a figure 8 to lay upon the flat earth map, and provide 24 hour daylight to the arctic circle with one loop, and 24 hour daylight to the Antarctic with the other loop. Not to mention the very idea of it goes against the motion of the sun laid out by FES to model the seasons. Answer is blatantly incorrect, based on your own models in the wiki. Care to try again?

As a reminder, http://wiki.tfes.org/images/4/43/Map.png here is the primary proposed model for the layout of Earth upon a flat disc.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 01:22:58 AM »
There are two magnetic and celestial poles in the most modern Flat Earth model. See The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions in our literature repository.
Once again, how is a sun that 'knows' when to move between two different orbits, more plausible than a spinning Earth? I'm also heavily curious how this idea works with the map of the Flat Earth as laid out.

That's because it doesn't. Antarctica is a continent in this model.

Offline Oami

  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 03:20:30 AM »
That's because it doesn't. Antarctica is a continent in this model.

I may have asked this earlier but don't remember having an answer.

Is there any decent map of the earth that looks like you think it should? The map shown in the faq does not show Antarctica as a continent but rather as a circle around the rest of the earth. It seems to me that you enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 03:40:46 AM »
That's because it doesn't. Antarctica is a continent in this model.

I may have asked this earlier but don't remember having an answer.

Is there any decent map of the earth that looks like you think it should? The map shown in the faq does not show Antarctica as a continent but rather as a circle around the rest of the earth. It seems to me that you enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.

The wiki doesn't disagree. It mentions the model. Here is one possible visualization: http://wiki.tfes.org/Layout_of_the_Continents

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 03:59:50 AM »
That's because it doesn't. Antarctica is a continent in this model.

I may have asked this earlier but don't remember having an answer.

Is there any decent map of the earth that looks like you think it should? The map shown in the faq does not show Antarctica as a continent but rather as a circle around the rest of the earth. It seems to me that you enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.

The wiki doesn't disagree. It mentions the model. Here is one possible visualization: http://wiki.tfes.org/Layout_of_the_Continents
The second model has more problems with it than the first though. The distortion on the continents is very noticeable, almost more so on the second one. How does the second model allow an airplane to travel from the West coast USA to Japan without noticing what's going on? What's going on with all of the crossing...are those supposed to be latitude lines?

Just to make sure I'm getting this right. If Antartica has a 24 hour daylight period, the 'standard' model for FE can't exist. Instead we have another proposed model, that appears to have numerous actual visible issues. That relies on some unknown mechanism so the sun can literally change it's orbit, twice a year. This mechanism can't be measured by anything we currently have, and it has to be able to significantly adjust the orbit of an object in the sky. That about sum things up for this question?

Offline Oami

  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 04:03:26 AM »
Especially the shape of Australia differs quite a lot between these two, as well as it does between either of them and the globe model.

Australia has some roads that go through it, west to east as well as south to north, so these could be measurable.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2017, 04:07:27 AM »
The example is for visualization purposes only. The continents are warped because it's just a projection of the globe model. The actual locations of the continents may differ as well (ie. Australia could be on the left side)

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 06:39:45 AM »
The example is for visualization purposes only. The continents are warped because it's just a projection of the globe model. The actual locations of the continents may differ as well (ie. Australia could be on the left side)
Why do you not have a map of the flat earth with accurate measurements?  Or why do all measurements of the earth prove it to be round?

Offline Oami

  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 07:59:59 AM »
I see.

So, the answer to my question on whether there is a decent map is apparently no.

Also, whatever the layout of the continents may be, there should be something that would keep the oceans from falling off. And still we have had many reports of circumnavigating between all the continents.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:50:52 AM by Oami »

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 01:18:36 PM »
The example is for visualization purposes only. The continents are warped because it's just a projection of the globe model. The actual locations of the continents may differ as well (ie. Australia could be on the left side)
Why is there not an accurate map then? All of the measurements that have been taken are publicly available. Should be a fairly simple matter for someone to have put one together, instead of stretching a RE image.

How about we simplify the other question down to a simple yes/no though. If Antarctica sees 24 hours of sunlight, as shown in my two videos above, is there any way the ice wall FE model can account for that?

Offline 3DGeek

  • *
  • Posts: 1024
  • Path of photon from sun location to eye at sunset?
    • View Profile
    • What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 09:26:53 PM »


Can you answer using your own words rather than linking to a 44-min video?

The problem with this video are MANY...but 44 minutes is a lot to watch and comment about.

Firstly - the antarctic treaty - BELOVED by Flat Earthers because they claim that it makes it illegal for ordinary people to go there...conveniently preventing people from reporting back on it's properties.    The Antarctic Treaty does NOTHING OF THE SORT!   It's actually the exact opposite of that.   It GUARANTEES that no one country can 'own' any of the territory - and GUARANTEES scientific access to the entire continent for anyone who wants to go out there and prove that the world is flat...or not.  So the "you can't go there" argument is a flat out lie...it only takes you 2 minutes to Google the treat conditions...heck, I'll even do it for you:

Here are the articles of that treaty:

Article 1 – The area is to be used for peaceful purposes only; military activity, such as weapons testing, is prohibited but military personnel and equipment may be used for scientific research or any other peaceful purpose;
Article 2 – Freedom of scientific investigations and cooperation shall continue;
Article 3 – Free exchange of information and personnel in cooperation with the United Nations and other international agencies;
Article 4 – The treaty does not recognise, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
Article 5 – The treaty prohibits nuclear explosions or disposal of radioactive wastes;
Article 6 – Includes under the treaty all land and ice shelves but not the surrounding waters south of 60 degrees 00 minutes south;
Article 7 – Treaty-state observers have free access, including aerial observation, to any area and may inspect all stations, installations, and equipment; advance notice of all activities and of the introduction of military personnel must be given;
Article 8 – Allows for good jurisdiction over observers and scientists by their own states;
Article 9 – Frequent consultative meetings take place among member nations;
Article 10 – All treaty states will discourage activities by any country in Antarctica that are contrary to the treaty;
Article 11 – All disputes to be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice;
Articles 12, 13, 14 – Deal with upholding, interpreting, and amending the treaty among involved nations.

Now - which one of those says we can't go there?   None of them!   In fact - it actively allows it.   If you say "I want to go to the South Pole to see if the Earth is Flat" - then (as a scientific investigator) - nobody can prevent you from going there.   Just don't take any weapons, radioactive waste or atom bombs - and you'll be welcomed.  Of course GETTING there - and not dropping dead while you're there - that's a harder problem...it's **NOT** the treaty that stops you going there.

The other issue - of the sun setting or not setting.

The earth's axis is tilted - which mean that the only time the sun goes around in a neat circle (above the horizon) is in mid-summer (December - because it's in the southern hemisphere).    In June/July, you get perpetual nighttime - but through the rest of the year, the sun DOES rise and set.

So - all our intrepid videographer did was to set his "astronomy" program to December (note - perpetual sunlight) and pick a time lapse video made...oh!  Really?  October?   Well...guess what...the sun does set in October.  Because the Earth's axis is tilted.

Sorry - 3/4's of an hour just to make THAT stupid elementary mistake?   Really?

Good grief.

Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline Oami

  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 10:00:32 PM »
Sorry - 3/4's of an hour just to make THAT stupid elementary mistake?   Really?

This is why I don't watch these videos at all, unless the person linking them gives some kind of a summary using their own words, or the exact timing to a point that is relevant for the conversation (one or two minutes maximum).

It has always been a waste of time. Apparently it would have been this time, as well.

There are things I do for money. Argumenting in the internet is not one of them. I do it because it is partly interesting and partly fun, but in order for it to be interesting or fun I want to be in control of the speed in which I receive information. When reading text I can scroll as fast as I like, skip parts that seem irrelevant, even search for certain words easily. Video is a format of information that takes this control away from me.

Actually I think videos are a rude form of conversation, especially when they are not being made by the persons themselves. Even if there were one hour of total bullshit, it would only require a few seconds to put a link on it; for the other person it would require at least one hour to watch, and then even more to actually comment it. If the conversation consists of one person only giving links to videos and an another person explaining why those videos are wrong, that is simply not fair. I would still do this if I got paid for it, but otherwise no.

Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 09:54:11 PM »
So, the answer to my question on whether there is a decent map is apparently no.

This is my favorite map.  It makes the southern hemisphere flight times work.


It seems to me that you [Tom Bishop] enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.
It seems to me that the flatness of the Earth is only a secondary concern to Tom - or rather it is merely a consequence of his primary belief.  What I have observed Tom's primary argument to be is... The Earth is not a globe.  Not exactly sure what it is, but it definitely is not a globe.
(Tom, please correct me where I am wrong)
The hallmark of true science is repeatability to the point of accurate prediction.