SorryNotSorry

• 22
For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« on: July 03, 2017, 08:46:20 AM »

I have spent some time reading up on the "flat earth theory", and I have found subscribers to this theory have a critical misunderstanding of how gravity works. Now to be fair most people don't really understand how gravity works, I'll do my best to explain it.

Space and time are essentially the same thing, woven together it's known as space-time. Now imagine space time is a surface of a trampoline, if you set a bowling ball in the middle of it it will create a divit, and if you place another object they will roll towards each other, much like how gravity functions only gravity works on all planes, not just two demintonal like this example.

http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/zoom-grav.html

Next, the orbit of the earth. Orbits work because the object is in a constant state of free fall, the gravitational force of the sun is pulling the earth towards it, however the earth is also missing the impact because it is always moving in a sideways direction at the same time. The force of gravity easily overpowers any entropy caused by small particles in space. The earth is essentially in a perminate state of free fall towards the sun however because of momentum in a sideways direction will always miss and this keeps us an average of 93 million miles from the sun at all times.

http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/1-what-causes-an-orbit.html

Maps of earth: There is no mathematical way to project a flat map of earth, so those who are trying to use maps to prove the earth is flat is just wrong.

If anyone wants to argue any other points I would be happy to enlighten you, but first I have an experiment for you. Do this and it will 100% prove one way or the other who is right:
1) Buy a very very large balloon
2) fill it with helium
3) attach a digital camera and a GPS so you can find it later, or put it on a very very long string.
4) let it go, when it comes back down look at the footage. If you don't want to do this yourself here is a link from someone who did, and before you call BS I expect to see footage of your own.

SexWarrior

• e
• 5766
• (◕‿◕✿)
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 09:18:15 AM »
I have spent some time reading up on the "flat earth theory", and I have found subscribers to this theory have a critical misunderstanding of how gravity works. Now to be fair most people don't really understand how gravity works, I'll do my best to explain it.
tfw to intelligent

Maps of earth: There is no mathematical way to project a flat map of earth, so those who are trying to use maps to prove the earth is flat is just wrong.
The Earth is flat. There is no mathematical way to project a flat surface onto a sphere without distorting it. Therefore, a globe is just wrong.

Do you see where this sort of logic fails? If you rely on the assumption that the Earth is a certain shape, reaching a conclusion that it's that shape is useless.

That's some nice lens distortion you've got there. I didn't know the Earth was egg-shaped, or that its shape changes so rapidly to correlate with angle.

before you call BS I expect to see footage of your own.
I don't think you understand your position here. Nobody cares about the expectations of a self-entitled asshole who came here (uninvited) to "enlighten" us with his high-school-level understanding of physics.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 09:21:13 AM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

TomInAustin

• 128
• Round
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 03:05:48 PM »
Posting a video with a wide angle lens proves nothing.  A prime lens will show what you seek.

Smokified

• 97
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 11:57:02 PM »
I have spent some time reading up on the "flat earth theory", and I have found subscribers to this theory have a critical misunderstanding of how gravity works. Now to be fair most people don't really understand how gravity works, I'll do my best to explain it.
tfw to intelligent

Maps of earth: There is no mathematical way to project a flat map of earth, so those who are trying to use maps to prove the earth is flat is just wrong.
The Earth is flat. There is no mathematical way to project a flat surface onto a sphere without distorting it. Therefore, a globe is just wrong.

Do you see where this sort of logic fails? If you rely on the assumption that the Earth is a certain shape, reaching a conclusion that it's that shape is useless.

That's some nice lens distortion you've got there. I didn't know the Earth was egg-shaped, or that its shape changes so rapidly to correlate with angle.

before you call BS I expect to see footage of your own.
I don't think you understand your position here. Nobody cares about the expectations of a self-entitled asshole who came here (uninvited) to "enlighten" us with his high-school-level understanding of physics.

What is your position here?  You are constantly lecturing people on the methods in which it is acceptable to communicate with you instead of just addressing the facts being presented.  If you wanted to have an exclusive club where everyone validates your conspiracy theory, why have a public site with a forum called "The Flat Earth Debate"?  If you are not interested in the debate, why come here and spend time blatantly avoiding the debate.

The earth is not flat, and nobody is trying to project a flat earth onto a globe using math.  You can, however, use math to verify the validity of any map that exists (keeping in mind that there is not one single "real" flat earth map that exists).

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2017, 05:18:50 AM »
Someone, anyone, give me evidence that I can't scientifically disapprove.

And between all of you, I challenge you to get \$500 together and do the balloon test, I've seen hundreds of these tests done and not one shows a "flat earth"

Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 2244
• Flat Earth Believer
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2017, 04:46:42 PM »
The video you posted is using a wide angle lens, the curvature of the earth changes depending on where the camera is looking in the scene.

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2017, 07:38:47 PM »
The video you posted is using a wide angle lens, the curvature of the earth changes depending on where the camera is looking in the scene.

Show me s video of a flat earth then.

3DGeek

• 175
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 07:19:52 PM »
The video you posted is using a wide angle lens, the curvature of the earth changes depending on where the camera is looking in the scene.

Show me s video of a flat earth then.

Showing photos of round (or flat) horizons convinces nobody.   If we saw a photo of a high-altitude, flat horizon - then that too could be the result of lens distortion.

It's truly a waste of time to try to present this stuff as evidence...and I say this as an RE'er.

I vote we find three FE'ers and three RE'ers with cameras - two who live in the UK, another two who live in East Africa and a third pair who live in South Africa (or choose Canada, Mexico and Argentina - or some place in north/central Russia, Japan and Australia...so long as they are on roughly the same line of longitude, I don't care) - have all of them photograph the moon at about the same time on the same night, preferably when it's close enough to the horizon to get both moon and horizon in shot - then have all six of them post their photos here and have a team of experts on either side of the debate explain to the rest of us what these photographs show.

Honestly - this is a ridiculously easy experiment...if it's done honestly by FE'ers AND RE'ers and we can compare their shots - then it's going to be hard for either side to claim "FAKE!" - there can be no possible conspiracy - and it WILL show whether the world is round or flat in a manner that everyone can easily understand.  Lens distortion won't matter - I can think of no way for this to fail.

Boots

• 364
• ---- Cogito, ergo sum. ---- -Descartes
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 07:39:51 PM »
I can think of no way for this to fail.
I think you vastly underestimate the resourcefulness of those who are determined to remain unconvinced.
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

3DGeek

• 175
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 07:58:34 PM »
I can think of no way for this to fail.
I think you vastly underestimate the resourcefulness of those who are determined to remain unconvinced.

Possibly...but I'd like to see an explanation.  If there is already an adequate explanation for the "moon-rotation" issue - then perhaps some FE'er could give it to us and save all of the messing around with photographs.

franklinho

• 17
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 12:09:51 AM »
Agreed with Galileo's quote. Also, I don't know whether I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. It has been proven by scientists that it is possible to create a 90 degree equilateral triangle on the surface of the Earth - something not possible with a flat earth.

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2017, 12:47:45 AM »
The video you posted is using a wide angle lens, the curvature of the earth changes depending on where the camera is looking in the scene.

Show me s video of a flat earth then.

Showing photos of round (or flat) horizons convinces nobody.   If we saw a photo of a high-altitude, flat horizon - then that too could be the result of lens distortion.

It's truly a waste of time to try to present this stuff as evidence...and I say this as an RE'er.

I vote we find three FE'ers and three RE'ers with cameras - two who live in the UK, another two who live in East Africa and a third pair who live in South Africa (or choose Canada, Mexico and Argentina - or some place in north/central Russia, Japan and Australia...so long as they are on roughly the same line of longitude, I don't care) - have all of them photograph the moon at about the same time on the same night, preferably when it's close enough to the horizon to get both moon and horizon in shot - then have all six of them post their photos here and have a team of experts on either side of the debate explain to the rest of us what these photographs show.

Honestly - this is a ridiculously easy experiment...if it's done honestly by FE'ers AND RE'ers and we can compare their shots - then it's going to be hard for either side to claim "FAKE!" - there can be no possible conspiracy - and it WILL show whether the world is round or flat in a manner that everyone can easily understand.  Lens distortion won't matter - I can think of no way for this to fail.

I volunteer from northern California to take a picture.

JHelzer

• 21
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2017, 01:03:16 AM »
I'd just like to point out that the true curvature of the Earth is visible in all the weather balloon videos out there on YouTube.  It is true that the camera lens is distorting the horizon across the screen from left to right, but that isn't the only curving of the Earth in these pictures.  In all the videos you can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  If the Earth was flat, we should be able to see hundreds or thousands of miles away into the distance as we rise higher.  Instead we always see the edge of the Earth in a sharp line as it curves away from us.

This screen shot at 6:16 from the video posted above shows the horizon from left to right looking as if the Earth's curve is concave.  We all know that is not correct, it is a lens distortion.  However in this same image, we can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  It is very clear that anything moving away from you would fly out and down around the bend and out of sight as the Earth curves away.  Every balloon video that I've ever watched on YouTube shows this same thing; even the ones claiming 100% proof that the Earth is flat.  As I look at them, they all show camera lenses distorting a picture of a spherical Earth curving away out of sight.
The foundation of any Path is learning to accept the world as it is, not as you wish or even observe it to be. -Will Wight

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2017, 07:32:17 PM »
I'd just like to point out that the true curvature of the Earth is visible in all the weather balloon videos out there on YouTube.  It is true that the camera lens is distorting the horizon across the screen from left to right, but that isn't the only curving of the Earth in these pictures.  In all the videos you can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  If the Earth was flat, we should be able to see hundreds or thousands of miles away into the distance as we rise higher.  Instead we always see the edge of the Earth in a sharp line as it curves away from us.

This screen shot at 6:16 from the video posted above shows the horizon from left to right looking as if the Earth's curve is concave.  We all know that is not correct, it is a lens distortion.  However in this same image, we can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  It is very clear that anything moving away from you would fly out and down around the bend and out of sight as the Earth curves away.  Every balloon video that I've ever watched on YouTube shows this same thing; even the ones claiming 100% proof that the Earth is flat.  As I look at them, they all show camera lenses distorting a picture of a spherical Earth curving away out of sight.

Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center, this would not be possible with a flat earth. Disregarding the curvature and lense distortion, a ball on launched in California and one launched in Germany would not both appear to be launched at the center of the earth, this effect is only prevalent in a round earth model. A flat earth would show more land in one given direction than the other, where a spherical earth will always appear to be launched at the center and have equal land on all sides. This takes the argument of lense distortion completely out, I would like to see a counter argument on that point.

Dither

• 142
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2017, 08:41:29 PM »
Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center,
What???

This has made my day, I'm off to work...

Sorry,

I should qualify this statement by asking why doesn't that above principal apply with a flat earth model.
Just stand still and do a 360 degree turn on the spot and tell me its because you are on a round earth that this is possible, are you not now the centre of all you survey?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:48:32 PM by Dither »
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.

Curious Squirrel

• 53
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2017, 09:21:31 PM »
Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center,
What???

This has made my day, I'm off to work...

Sorry,

I should qualify this statement by asking why doesn't that above principal apply with a flat earth model.
Just stand still and do a 360 degree turn on the spot and tell me its because you are on a round earth that this is possible, are you not now the centre of all you survey?

Upon reaching the upper atmosphere's, where your vision allows you to see further, you should be able to begin to see the edges. A ballon launched in Australia should not see the world extend out beneath them equally in all directions on a flat Earth. Because the view would look past the 'ice wall' into nothingness. Actually now I'm curious what one launched from the Antarctic would see, if it's been done. Because it should see a long wall of ice curving off into the distance all along one side, would it not?
FET - A few old books making claims and telling you how things must be based on the words contained therein. This sounds familiar....

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2017, 10:19:26 PM »
Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center,
What???

This has made my day, I'm off to work...

Sorry,

I should qualify this statement by asking why doesn't that above principal apply with a flat earth model.
Just stand still and do a 360 degree turn on the spot and tell me its because you are on a round earth that this is possible, are you not now the centre of all you survey?

Standing on the ground does not help the argument for the same reason gaurd towers on built high up. You can see a greater distances and over obsitcals from an increased altadtude. As the person above me said a balloon launched from an area close to the edge of a flat earth should be able to see this wall and would not appear to be in the center of the map. In the flat earth model it is usually stated that the north poll is at the center, so the only place you should see equal land on all sides would be a balloon launched at the north poll. In fact any balloon launched should be able to see this wall before you see off into space above the horizon line.

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2017, 10:22:56 PM »
Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center,
What???

This has made my day, I'm off to work...

Sorry,

I should qualify this statement by asking why doesn't that above principal apply with a flat earth model.
Just stand still and do a 360 degree turn on the spot and tell me its because you are on a round earth that this is possible, are you not now the centre of all you survey?

Upon reaching the upper atmosphere's, where your vision allows you to see further, you should be able to begin to see the edges. A ballon launched in Australia should not see the world extend out beneath them equally in all directions on a flat Earth. Because the view would look past the 'ice wall' into nothingness. Actually now I'm curious what one launched from the Antarctic would see, if it's been done. Because it should see a long wall of ice curving off into the distance all along one side, would it not?

Here is a link to a video launched from southern Australia, no ice wall anywhere to be seen, and still equal land on all sides.

Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 2244
• Flat Earth Believer
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 03:45:36 AM »
Another good argument is that, no matter where the balloon in launched from it always appears to be in the center,
What???

This has made my day, I'm off to work...

Sorry,

I should qualify this statement by asking why doesn't that above principal apply with a flat earth model.
Just stand still and do a 360 degree turn on the spot and tell me its because you are on a round earth that this is possible, are you not now the centre of all you survey?

Upon reaching the upper atmosphere's, where your vision allows you to see further, you should be able to begin to see the edges. A ballon launched in Australia should not see the world extend out beneath them equally in all directions on a flat Earth. Because the view would look past the 'ice wall' into nothingness. Actually now I'm curious what one launched from the Antarctic would see, if it's been done. Because it should see a long wall of ice curving off into the distance all along one side, would it not?

Why would you be able to see where it is night?

SorryNotSorry

• 22
Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 04:00:11 AM »
Quote
Why would you be able to see where it is night?

Because of the time? Lol

I guess I don't understand your question. A round earth won't obscure your ability to see the horizon line, you can see this line from a 747 on a trans Atlantic flight. More to that point at that altitude you can see a slight curvature to the earth too.