Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« on: June 22, 2017, 09:42:43 PM »
Hi Guys!

It's been a while since I dropped in here. Life, you know....finds a way to step in the way of pleasure.
Anyway. When I finally DID have the time, and remembered to stop in, I notice two things.

In reverse chronological order:

- There looks to be an uptick in activity here as opposed to my last visit which was a sad state of affairs, since a topic that I'd started had lingered on the front page for a while. I'm glad to see it...but only because I adore the fencing back and forth between the RE and FE sides. It's a marvelous bouquet of point-counter-point, tinged with equal parts scientific observation, and juvenile barbs directed at an opponent's intellect. I've missed it.

- Secondly- and the main point of my post, is that on the front page, I see the link to the Shaquille O'Neal piece where he 'joins the flat earth movement.'
Being no stranger to academia, and having survived the 2016 US Presidential election, I decided to do some digging on this claim. The post was put up on March 21, and then immediately followed three days later by....numerous pieces indicating a backpedal, or- more accurately, a redaction of his claim calling it a joke.

Yet even three months later, it's showcased on the TFES front page like some sort of jewel, a peacock feather in the cap of the flat-earth world.

Did you not see his follow-up? Did you ignore it because, the lure of a big name was so blinding as to render the final word on the matter inconsequential? Or, is your web master just a little slow on the uptake?

Whatever the reason, methinks- should you desire any sort of serious consideration from your largely doubting public....it's time to remove fallacy from your home page.

Much love, and....yeah, its great to be back

-DS

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2017, 10:05:40 PM »

Hi DS,

There was quite a debate at the time about his recanting but it was decided that he had been forced to do so, by lizards or his mum or shadowy forces, you know the ones that fake history and move us around like puppets. He has now been brain wiped and replaced by an android.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 01:40:00 AM »

Hi DS,

There was quite a debate at the time about his recanting but it was decided that he had been forced to do so, by lizards or his mum or shadowy forces, you know the ones that fake history and move us around like puppets. He has now been brain wiped and replaced by an android.

This makes sense

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 03:33:33 PM »
Shaq retracted his opinion only after he was mocked by the media around the world. Why should anyone believe that retraction?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 04:19:09 PM »
Being no stranger to academia, and having survived the 2016 US Presidential election, I decided to do some digging on this claim.
It's a shame you didn't do even the most rudimentary of "digging" around the discussions which were already had about this subject here. Duplicate threads help nobody.

Shaq's non-retraction has been deliberately discredited, and has largely gone unaccepted by even the mainstream media.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 09:56:13 PM »
Being no stranger to academia, and having survived the 2016 US Presidential election, I decided to do some digging on this claim.
It's a shame you didn't do even the most rudimentary of "digging" around the discussions which were already had about this subject here. Duplicate threads help nobody.

Shaq's non-retraction has been deliberately discredited, and has largely gone unaccepted by even the mainstream media.

There was absolutely nothing in the form of evidence or knowledge included in Shaq's statements about the flat earth.  "I drove coast to coast and have seen it".....Sorry, that perception has been explained ad nauseam and can be explained, once again, with facts that do not align with FET.

Also, why was the FES making such a big deal out of what some guy said?  He clearly isn't qualified and has a complete lack of any kind of knowledge to make an argument on either side.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 01:00:36 AM »
There was absolutely nothing in the form of evidence or knowledge included in Shaq's statements about the flat earth.  "I drove coast to coast and have seen it".....Sorry, that perception has been explained ad nauseam and can be explained, once again, with facts that do not align with FET.

It's called empericism, which squarely supports FET.

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Also, why was the FES making such a big deal out of what some guy said?  He clearly isn't qualified and has a complete lack of any kind of knowledge to make an argument on either side.

You don't even know what credentials or qualifications Shaq has. Shaq almost certainly has greater qualifications than 99% of the RE'ers who come here and make an opinion.

Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 05:14:34 AM »
There was absolutely nothing in the form of evidence or knowledge included in Shaq's statements about the flat earth.  "I drove coast to coast and have seen it".....Sorry, that perception has been explained ad nauseam and can be explained, once again, with facts that do not align with FET.

It's called empericism, which squarely supports FET.

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Also, why was the FES making such a big deal out of what some guy said?  He clearly isn't qualified and has a complete lack of any kind of knowledge to make an argument on either side.

You don't even know what credentials or qualifications Shaq has. Shaq almost certainly has greater qualifications than 99% of the RE'ers who come here and make an opinion.

So your entire theory relies on the support of people who just see what they see without any logical frame of reference?  And this is a theory you literally take time out of your life to support and justify?

Also, Shaq's credentials are publicly documented information.  Just because YOU don't know them, doesn't mean the information doesn't exist.  A simple Google search will do.  There is nothing about is education (which includes a doctorate in education) that qualifies him as an expert on astronomy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 05:35:16 AM »
So your entire theory relies on the support of people who just see what they see without any logical frame of reference?  And this is a theory you literally take time out of your life to support and justify?

 Flat Earth is an empirical truth. All inquiry must begin with empirical truths.

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Also, Shaq's credentials are publicly documented information.  Just because YOU don't know them, doesn't mean the information doesn't exist.  A simple Google search will do.  There is nothing about is education (which includes a doctorate in education) that qualifies him as an expert on astronomy.

The interview is mostly about how we are being brainwashed by the educational system to believe in things which are wrong and unproven. Someone with a doctorate in education is supremely qualified to speak about that sort of thing and cast doubt on supposed truths like the Round Earth model.

Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 05:44:11 AM »
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Flat Earth is an empirical truth. All inquiry must begin with empirical truths.

Flat Earth is not an empirical truth.  You have to observe it first in order for it to be that.  FES uses the argument that nobody has seen the earth in its entirety as a globe (which is flat out false), yet not one flat earth believer has ever seen a flat earth in its entirety, and therefore the idea of a flat earth is not any kind of truth.  It is a rejection of readily available information in order to support the idea of a conspiracy that has no motive to exist.

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The interview is mostly about how we are being brainwashed by the educational system to believe in things which are wrong and unproven. Someone with a doctorate in education is supremely qualified to speak about that sort of thing and cast doubt on supposed truths like the Round Earth model.

Which interview?  Your comments suggest a significant disconnect with reality and a lack of comprehension that there is a lot more that exists beyond your clearly, very obstructed view of the world.  You are simply making up what you think a doctorate in education entails.  But since you have never seen one, or received one yourself, by your logic, it doesn't even exist.

At some point you really just have being honest with yourself.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 11:52:07 AM »
Also, why was the FES making such a big deal out of what some guy said?
Are we? We posted a short article about it 3 months ago, then a short discussion followed. That tends to happen when high-profile individuals make a big statement about FE, because suddenly you get a drove of newcomers asking us if we've heard about it yet (spoiler: the answer is usually "yes").

Where, exactly, is the "big deal"?

He clearly isn't qualified and has a complete lack of any kind of knowledge to make an argument on either side.
Neither are/do you, and yet here you are making arguments.

Flat Earth is not an empirical truth.  You have to observe it first in order for it to be that.
We have observed it. That's why it's an empirical truth.

FES uses the argument that nobody has seen the earth in its entirety as a globe
No, it doesn't. Please refrain from lying, it does terrible things to your credibility.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 11:53:53 AM by SexWarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 01:25:09 AM »
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Are we? We posted a short article about it 3 months ago, then a short discussion followed. That tends to happen when high-profile individuals make a big statement about FE, because suddenly you get a drove of newcomers asking us if we've heard about it yet (spoiler: the answer is usually "yes").

As a side effect of the unchecked arrogance you suffer from, you seem to be unaware that your little group here is not the only FES group that exists.  An interesting point if you take a moment to consider it.  I would imagine another side effect of this arrogance is also that you feel you are the only one that matters.  Not far off?

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Neither are/do you, and yet here you are making arguments.

I am not making arguments such as "I drove to a place and it kind of looked flat to me" and "look out your window and see for yourself" to try and debunk facts, personal accounts, pictures, videos...etc.  This is what invalidates his position, and yours.  Posting Shaq's drivel on your homepage was an obvious attempt to try and validate and make popular your position of a flat earth.  You just ended up further embarrassing yourselves.

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We have observed it. That's why it's an empirical truth.

No, you haven't.  Seeing a level plane is not the same thing as observing the earth as a flat disc.  I have personally observed evidence of a globular earth, yet in order to maintain your position, you have to claim my observations are invalid, while also tying to claim your observations are valid.  This is called hypocrisy.


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No, it doesn't. Please refrain from lying, it does terrible things to your credibility.

Again, your little narcissistic, closed off corner of the world does not represent the entirety of the "society".  If a globular earth is a scam, then by default nobody could have observed it.  If you are saying that people have observed a globular earth, then the earth is in fact, NOT flat, as you are trying to suggest it is...based on "observation".  You can't have it both ways.

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Offline juner

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 03:30:07 AM »
As a side effect of the unchecked arrogance you suffer from, you seem to be unaware that your little group here is not the only FES group that exists. 

Ah, another display of your ignorance. You clearly have no understanding of the history of the Flat Earth Society. Contrary to your false assumptions, we are quite aware of the other FES groups, as many of us here came from another group years ago.

I would suggest you stick to discussing things you have some clue about. It will keep you from looking so foolish all the time.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 08:16:05 AM »
you seem to be unaware that your little group here is not the only FES group that exists.
Yeah, I guess having been a member of the other FES for 7 years, I might be a bit confused about the idea that they exist. Have you considered the radical possibility that you're the arrogant one here?

I would imagine another side effect of this arrogance is also that you feel you are the only one that matters.  Not far off?
Fairly far off. It just so happens that I'm acutely aware of how other FE organisations responded to Shaq's announcement, and it just so happens that for the most part it was very similar to our response.

I'm sure you can find a single group that made a big deal out of it, but if you're going to unduly focus on tiny unrepresentative minorities, you're not gonna be taken particularly seriously.

I am not making arguments such as "I drove to a place and it kind of looked flat to me" and "look out your window and see for yourself" to try and debunk facts, personal accounts, pictures, videos...etc.  This is what invalidates his position, and yours.
Mine? I doubt you can recount much of my position. Just a hunch.

Posting Shaq's drivel on your homepage was an obvious attempt to try and validate and make popular your position of a flat earth.
I posted Shaq's announcement on the homepage. I reckon I know better what I did and did not mean to achieve by it. I also successfully achieved it. You can flounder all you want about what you think is "obvious" or "embarrassing", but it's unlikely to affect how things actually are.

No, you haven't.
Nuh-uh!

Seeing a level plane is not the same thing as observing the earth as a flat disc.
It's a great thing that I never claimed otherwise. Why are you bringing this up?

I have personally observed evidence of a globular earth, yet in order to maintain your position, you have to claim my observations are invalid, while also tying to claim your observations are valid.
Not at all. That's not what we're doing.

Again, your little narcissistic, closed off corner of the world does not represent the entirety of the "society".
If you come to the Flat Earth Society's website and talk about the Flat Earth Society, it is generally accepted that you're talking about the FES you're currently talking to. This should not be a controversial observation, but here you go. So:
  • Be more specific. If you mean the other FES, say "the other FES". If for some bizarre reason you're lumping independent groups together, say something like "multiple FE groups".
  • Do not expect us to take responsibility for the actions of others. If you don't like how others are behaving, take it up with them. We can't help you with that. In return, we will not ask you to explain the stupid things some other Round Earthers may have said here in the past.

If a globular earth is a scam, then by default nobody could have observed it.
A tenuous claim, at best. You'll have to be more specific before it can be assigned a truth value.

If you are saying that people have observed a globular earth, then the earth is in fact, NOT flat, as you are trying to suggest it is...based on "observation".  You can't have it both ways.
Actually, there are plenty of situations in which observations can be misinterpreted or misunderstood. Again, this should not be controversial and is perfectly understood in mainstream science.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 08:20:06 AM by SexWarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2017, 11:33:14 PM »
You put an awful lot of time into avoiding the conversation and saying nothing at all.

Your position is that the earth is (probably) flat.  The earth is not flat.  That is all this is about.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2017, 08:18:14 AM »
You put an awful lot of time into avoiding the conversation and saying nothing at all.
Nah, I have very little free time, and so I don't spend much time on anything here at all. Contrary to common belief, it doesn't take long to write down a few sentences.

Your position is that the earth is (probably) flat.  The earth is not flat.  That is all this is about.
No, that is not what this thread is about. If you want to start a thread about how you think the Earth is round, please consider starting one in Flat Earth Debate (if you're going to make a meaningful post) or Angry Ranting (if you plan to make posts similar to your recent ones)
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Offline Smokified

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Re: Might need to amend the TFES homepage.....
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2017, 03:31:32 PM »
You put an awful lot of time into avoiding the conversation and saying nothing at all.
Nah, I have very little free time, and so I don't spend much time on anything here at all. Contrary to common belief, it doesn't take long to write down a few sentences.

Your position is that the earth is (probably) flat.  The earth is not flat.  That is all this is about.
No, that is not what this thread is about. If you want to start a thread about how you think the Earth is round, please consider starting one in Flat Earth Debate (if you're going to make a meaningful post) or Angry Ranting (if you plan to make posts similar to your recent ones)

You need to get over this idea that you are somehow in a position to dictate terms and issue lectures.

It doesn't matter where the post is.  You just blatantly avoid the flat earth conversation using your little lectures as a distraction.