[joshualuther]

Check this video out explaining the problem in detail.

[Nirmala]

I addressed how that is explained on that map earlier in this thread when it was brought up. I don't even use that map as my main go-to flat earth map, anyway. I typically use the one where Antarctica is a continent.

Your so-called explanations were refuted.

And what is this map you prefer to use? could you show it?

Similar problems with the areas of daylight and the path of the sun on the alternative bipolar map Tom Bishop is referring to are explored on these threads:
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6083.0
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6072.0

[Nirmala]

I addressed how that is explained on that map earlier in this thread when it was brought up. I don't even use that map as my main go-to flat earth map, anyway. I typically use the one where Antarctica is a continent.

It seems to me that you use both maps at different points. Which model do you personally actually believe in: the unipolar flat earth with an ice ring around it, or a bipolar flat earth with Anarctica as a separate continent that can be circumnavigated? And if the latter, then what is beyond the edge of the bipolar flat map? Another ice ring? An infinite ocean in perpetual darkness? Or are you undecided about which model is true?

I know I have asked these questions on another thread, but I am still waiting for an answer. It seems strange for someone to argue from a unipolar model and a bipolar model in the same thread as they often contradict each other, especially on a topic like this thread's topic.

[despat]

I addressed how that is explained on that map earlier in this thread when it was brought up. I don't even use that map as my main go-to flat earth map, anyway. I typically use the one where Antarctica is a continent.

It seems to me that you use both maps at different points. Which model do you personally actually believe in: the unipolar flat earth with an ice ring around it, or a bipolar flat earth with Anarctica as a separate continent that can be circumnavigated? And if the latter, then what is beyond the edge of the bipolar flat map? Another ice ring? An infinite ocean in perpetual darkness? Or are you undecided about which model is true?

I know I have asked these questions on another thread, but I am still waiting for an answer. It seems strange for someone to argue from a unipolar model and a bipolar model in the same thread as they often contradict each other, especially on a topic like this thread's topic.

 It's a 7 year long research done by many scientists to find the real shape of our earth. They're either all very good liars or we actually live on a flat earth where  BIGGER LIERS  have constructed a false "Global" reality to hid something from us.  I wouldn't be surpised, ONE BIG LIE (Moon landing) and all the puffed up pride  has just led to series of lies that have gone too far (that's it's not funny anymore).

[Tumeni]

(Since you posted the video to two threads, I repeat what I said on the other ..)

Here you go.
VID

It's a 7 year long research done by many scientists to find the real shape of our earth.

There's no proof they are or were "scientists". No statement of qualifications, no indication of what work they've done, etc.

They're either all very good liars or we actually live on a flat earth where  BIGGER LIERS  have constructed a false "Global" reality to hid something from us.  I wouldn't be surpised, ONE BIG LIE (Moon landing) and all the puffed up pride  has just led to series of lies that have gone too far (that's it's not funny anymore).

It's a mockumentary. A Spinal Tap for flat-earthers.

A bunch of high-profile FEers on YouTube mirrored it on the day of release, and within a couple of days, they'd pulled it because they realised they'd been had.

Look on YouTube. Not hard to find retractions and backpedalling.

It supposedly took 7 years to make, but nobody ages during this.
At one point, they claim a reading of 15 km, but this is voiced over a display which shows 1.5km
It even has a Cast List in the end credits, and most of the cast seem to be the extended family of the lead role.
The lead role has intitials 'UFO'
Googling provides NO data for any of the cast, apart from the 'Music Critic' listed. Wouldn't you expect SOMETHING about them, IF they were real scientists ...?

[Machinist22]

So, I'll jump in here with a point that I believe to be the "Unanswerable Question".  How is it possible to have exactly half the world/earth illuminated at any given time.  It works perfectly on the globe model, as a large light source, very far away, will always light up exactly half of a ball (globe) all the time.  The seasons work perfectly because of the tilt of the globe on its rotating axis, resulting in the Northern and Southern hemispheres being closer and farther away from the light source as it orbits around the light/heat source throughout the year.  It requires no speeding up and/or slowing down of the sun (for which there seems to be no explanation of how that happens).  Also, at the equator, the sun "comes up" directly on the eastern horizon and travels in a straight line to "go down" directly on the western horizon.  This is not what would be observed on any flat earth model I have ever seen (looking into this theory for several years now), nor can it be demonstrated by the FE model.  It is simply impossible on the FE but quite simple on the RE.  Given the fact that refraction from cold to warm air is only a difference of .003% (as mentioned earlier in this thread), there is no way that the shape of the light given off by the sun could ever reach exactly half of the earth, ever.  A single point of light will always produce (on a uniform surface) a round shape of light.  As I said, the only way half of the earth could ever be illuminated at the same time (as is observed every day), is with a round earth and a single light source very far away.  I am very versed in graphics and have my own CAD program.  Graphically, I have found that with the sun directly over the equator, with the light shape reaching from the middle (North Pole) to the edge ("South Pole") at best it results in approximately 1/3 of the earth illuminated which would mean that night would be twice as long as day, at the equator.  However, when the sun is directly overhead at the equator day and night are the same length.  I would really like to hear an explanation from a flat earther that actually makes sense.  I have not heard one yet so I believe this to be the Achilles heel of the FET.  If there is so much "proof" that the earth is flat, where is it?  It shouldn't be so hard to understand that you need complex equations to explain it.  The fact that the earth is a globe was observed without complex equations long before NASA ever existed.

[QED]

Nope, you are right, the sun speed changes. I actually have an excel calculator that works out the speed of the sun on any given day. (I'm a geek and enjoy making such things.) Unfortunately I can't upload a file to a forum post. But you have all the information you need to do it.

Assume the diameter of the earth is 40,008km and the distance from the North pole to the equator is 10,002km and the sun is moving between 23°26′14.4″ S and 23°26′14.4″ North of the equator. The Summer and winter Solstices provide your two limits.
*Note: The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars in round earth theory so you need to use the full 24 hours for speed, we want the sun speed. (we explain the difference between the two with celestial gearing, or the prime mover ... first theorised by Aristotle and later elaborated on by Thomas Aquinas in his cosmological arguments, as a "first cause" of existence.)

Below is the diagram of how the sun moves over the earth relative to the seasons


Below Wilbur Voliva shows how the sun orbits directly above the earth 3000 miles up.


Below is the Flammarion woodcut depicting a man lifting the curtain of the sky to see the gears that drive the heavens.

You have the calculations? Dude! Why are you keeping this secret?

Can’t ya make a google drive? Or a online repository?

If you can demonstrate that a day/night cycle on a FE is viable - then that is huge! If independently verified it represents a solid step forward. From this data, actual trajectories could be mapped out.

Has any FEer requested to see this, or do they just take your word for it?

Well done, BTW.

[spherical]

To have a summer day longer than 12 hours in Australia, South Africa or South of Argentina, even Uruguay (I was born close to Uruguay), the Sun's light must hit the exactly same point in the ground for more than 12 consecutive hours, changing angle of incidence, of course. 

Considering the FE Sun circles over the FE disc once every 24 hours, then it must cover more than 180 degrees of the southern FE land at any specific time during southern summer.   Can any FEr please, draw a specific geometric shape over the FE map, even crude, showing this coverage ?

Additional text:
The big problems for FE is the southern hemisphere, always, this is why both, FEr or REr,  we need to stress any issue in attempt to clarify any doubts through the scientific way.  There are plenty of FE issues there, direction of rotation and visibility of the stars, lands dimensions and ocean distances between them, times of flight, Sun presenting itself 360° all around during summer (the killer issue), etc. 

I was raised watching the Crux Constellation every night, rotating in the sky, stars Acrux (the 12th brightest star in the sky), Alpha Crucis  magnitude 0.77.  It is on declination -63°, due the Earth's curvature it can not be seem north of latitude 27°N.  It was my first telescope observation at 6 yrs old, we didn't have so much light pollution at that time, skies were really black and clean. The Crux is a circumpolar constellation at 34°S, it means it is visible all year round in the south, and its position is the opposite of Cassiopeia in the Northern sky.  There is an image of the Crux on the rocks of Machu Picchu in Peru, the Inca knew it as Chakana. It is also presented on the Australian and Brazilian flag, its name was used as Brazilian currency denomination for quite some time. There is a trick to use the Crux to exactly locate the South Pole, it was an important navigation tool before GPS, as the North Star was for the northern hemisphere.

 

[rodriados]

To have a summer day longer than 12 hours in Australia, South Africa or South of Argentina, even Uruguay (I was born close to Uruguay), the Sun's light must hit the exactly same point in the ground for more than 12 consecutive hours, changing angle of incidence, of course. 

Considering the FE Sun circles over the FE disc once every 24 hours, then it must cover more than 180 degrees of the southern FE land at any specific time during southern summer.   Can any FEr please, draw a specific geometric shape over the FE map, even crude, showing this coverage ?

Additional text:
The big problems for FE is the southern hemisphere, always, this is why both, FEr or REr,  we need to stress any issue in attempt to clarify any doubts through the scientific way.  There are plenty of FE issues there, direction of rotation and visibility of the stars, lands dimensions and ocean distances between them, times of flight, Sun presenting itself 360° all around during summer (the killer issue), etc. 

I was raised watching the Crux Constellation every night, rotating in the sky, stars Acrux (the 12th brightest star in the sky), Alpha Crucis  magnitude 0.77.  It is on declination -63°, due the Earth's curvature it can not be seem north of latitude 27°N.  It was my first telescope observation at 6 yrs old, we didn't have so much light pollution at that time, skies were really black and clean. The Crux is a circumpolar constellation at 34°S, it means it is visible all year round in the south, and its position is the opposite of Cassiopeia in the Northern sky.  There is an image of the Crux on the rocks of Machu Picchu in Peru, the Inca knew it as Chakana. It is also presented on the Australian and Brazilian flag, its name was used as Brazilian currency denomination for quite some time. There is a trick to use the Crux to exactly locate the South Pole, it was an important navigation tool before GPS, as the North Star was for the northern hemisphere.

 

Where were you born at?

Also, it's interesting to note that although the Southern sky rotates in an opposite direction to that of the Northern sky, if you compare the position of stars everyday at the same time throughout a year (for instance zodiacal constellations), you will note their change in position is the same in both Hemispheres...

This phenomenon is unintuitive on a Flat Earth, to say the least.

[spherical]

Where were you born at?

I was born in the Southernmost state of Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul, it makes division with Uruguai (33.7°S) and Argentina. The three countries share a great area known as "Pampas", plains with fantastic cattle with low muscle, the cowboys on horses are known as "gauchos".  Rio Grande do Sul was basically colonized by Portuguese on the 18th century, and then heavily by Italians and Germans later on the 19th century.  The cold weather is perfect for cultive of grapes, so, great wineries can be find there. They export very good lean meat and very good wines.  The US steakhouse chain Texas de Brazil is based on our traditions. I could not hold myself, the climate, culture, genetic mix and influence of the southern stars, produce fantastic women, one is the actual supermodel Gisele Bündchen, also in 1963 a Miss Universe Ieda Maria Vargas, and of course my wife. The cold climate and chilling nights call for a good hot tea, made with grind leaves of "erva mate", we call "chimarrão", everybody drinks it, all the time.  Impossible to put a group of friends together without sharing a "chimarrão" and stories, anytime, anyplace. That metallic straw, we call "pump", has a large round metallic filter at bottom, gold tip on top (to keep clean and free of microbes) and some has precious jewels in the middle, it is used to suck the tea from the bottom of the recipient, named "cuia", it is made of natural plant, known as "cabaça americana", origins in Africa. Impossible to see a "gaucho" without his "chimarrão" at hand.

[rodriados]

Where were you born at?

I was born in the Southernmost state of Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul, it makes division with Uruguai (33.7°S) and Argentina. The three countries share a great area known as "Pampas", plains with fantastic cattle with low muscle, the cowboys on horses are known as "gauchos".  Rio Grande do Sul was basically colonized by Portuguese on the 18th century, and then heavily by Italians and Germans later on the 19th century.  The cold weather is perfect for cultive of grapes, so, great wineries can be find there. They export very good lean meat and very good wines.  The US steakhouse chain Texas de Brazil is based on our traditions. I could not hold myself, the climate, culture, genetic mix and influence of the southern stars, produce fantastic women, one is the actual supermodel Gisele Bündchen, also in 1963 a Miss Universe Ieda Maria Vargas, and of course my wife. The cold climate and chilling nights call for a good hot tea, made with grind leaves of "erva mate", we call "chimarrão", everybody drinks it, all the time.  Impossible to put a group of friends together without sharing a "chimarrão" and stories, anytime, anyplace. That metallic straw, we call "pump", has a large round metallic filter at bottom, gold tip on top (to keep clean and free of microbes) and some has precious jewels in the middle, it is used to suck the tea from the bottom of the recipient, named "cuia", it is made of natural plant, known as "cabaça americana", origins in Africa. Impossible to see a "gaucho" without his "chimarrão" at hand.

I am from Mato Grosso do Sul - for non-Brazilians it is in the Midwestern region of Brazil, bordering Paraguay and Bolivia - and we have a huge "gaucho" community in the state! It's quite common to see people drinking "chimarrão", but "tereré" is much more widespread. The only difference I see between the two is that "tereré" is actually made of cold water!

To bring the conversation back on topic, as I also lived in Arizona for some years, I saw myself that during certain periods of the year the Southern Hemisphere sees longer days than the Northern Hemisphere. I remember being dark in San Francisco, California around 4:30 pm, something that I have never seen happening here in Brazil! How would this make any sense in a Flat Earth?

Note: I have never been anywhere south of São Paulo, Brazil, which lies exactly on the Tropic of Capricorn. On the other hand, I have been much further north than the Tropic of Cancer, as the mainland US lies completely north of it.

[inquisitive]

I addressed how that is explained on that map earlier in this thread when it was brought up. I don't even use that map as my main go-to flat earth map, anyway. I typically use the one where Antarctica is a continent.

How do you know that map is correct?

[EarthNotFlat]

My mistake. I noticed that I posted it in the wrong thread. I moved it here.

In Rowbotham's graph, you still have the same problem. I've attached the picture with modifications. Let's take the green circle: it represents the daylight of the sun during southern summer at a specific spot. While the sun goes along the red arc, the blue spot gets daylight. But again, this red arc represents only a quarter of the sun's full path. So you get daylight for 6h, and the 18h left are night... during summer... which is not what we observe.

In fact, if you wanted a longer day than night (during southern summer), the spot light would be huge. So big, in fact, that the north pole would always be within the spot. Thus there would never be night in the north pole (and other northern part of the world) while it's summer in the southern hemiplane, which is not what we observe.

Plus, the only way to enlarge the spot would be to have the sun at a higher altitude. But then, it would be colder, not warmer during winter... which is not what we observe.

How can you explain that...?

The expanded explanation is that the spotlight changes shape throughout the year due to refraction and the varrying height of the sun throughout the year.

First, if no atmosphere existed, no doubt the light of the sun would diffuse over the whole earth at once, and alternations of light and darkness could not exist.

Secondly, as the earth is covered with an atmosphere of many miles in depth, the density of which gradually increases downwards to the surface, all the rays of light except those which are vertical, as they enter the upper stratum of air are arrested in their course of diffusion, and by Snell's Law bent downwards towards the earth; as this takes place in all directions round the sun--equally where density and other conditions are equal, and vice versâ--the effect is a non-uniform area of sun-light.

For a striking example of Snell's Law we simply need to put a straw into a glass of water:



As we can see, the light from behind the glass is bent downwards as it passes through the thick medium of the water. While this is an extreme example, it shows that light is malleable, able to bend and conform based on existing conditions. When the light of the sun moves from the vacuum of space into the atmosphere of the earth it is gradually compelled downwards into the surface. The refractive index of air is a bit less than water, and so the effect will me more gradual, taking place over tens of thousands of miles instead of abruptly like the above image.

This considered, lets designate some facts.

Fact: Cold air is denser than warm air, and has therefore a greater refractive index.¹

Fact: The sun is higher over the earth in its Northern Annulus and closer to the earth during its Southern Annulus.²

During Equinox the sun is positioned over the equator, the majority of its warmth spread over the ring of the equator. The sun is at it's middle point between hemispheres. The atmosphere in this area around the equator is at its highest temperature and therefore, since warm air has less of a refractive index than cold air, light can progress further through the atmosphere without bending towards the ground. This results in the spotlight of the sun conforming to the shape of the hottest areas. The end result gives the spotlight of the sun an oval shape taking up roughly one half of the earth:



When the Sun is over the North and at its highest altitude the spotlight is small and circular. This is because the sun is far from the earth and not heating the atmosphere up very much. At this time the entire Southern Hemisphere is in its Winter, and since cold air is denser than warm air, the refractive index is higher and light cannot proceed without being redirected into the earth. Since the earth is colder, the light is restricted to a smaller circle where summer exists in the North.

When the sun is over the South and close to the earth the sun is heating up the Southern Hemisphere, giving the spotlight a wide crescent shape. The shape is a crescent because when the sun is over the South it is winter in the North and the sun's light cannot penetrate the density of the Northern Hemisphere's winter.

The shape of the spotlight defines the time it will take for the sun to set. If the spotlight is small, the sun will appear to pass over the earth quickly. If the spotlight is large, the sun will take appear to take a longer time to pass over the earth. In the above illustration the Sun's spotlight is neither small or large - but at it's median.

¹ Fourth paragraph in the Wikipedia article on Mirages
² See the Sun's Analemma which demonstrates the height of the sun over the course of the year.

In your illustration, the red area is less than half of the total area of your flat earth drawing, so if you're saying that that's the spotlight, then it doesn't match observations.
I know of a video that explains and debunks how the seasons and night and day work on a flat earth, its a response to globebusters:

[spherical]

Today in Central Florida we have 13 hours and 23 minutes of visible Sun.

Sunrise in Orlando, FL, USA: 6:40 AM
Sunset in Orlando, FL, USA: 8:04 PM
Wednesday, May 8, 2019 (EDT)

Yesterday I observed the magnificent Sunset right at my backdoor at 280° exactly at 8:04pm, see the record below.



On June 21st, it will be 13 hours, 57 minutes and 40 seconds... from 6:28am to 8:26pm, it is almost 14 hours of visible Sun.

On the FE map, it will represent almost 210° of the circle with latitude 28.5°N.

It means, an FE observer at latitude 28.5°N would be able to see the sunrise at 36° and the sunset at 324°, but it is not where I will see the Sun at the same latitude 28.5°N, it will rise at 63°ENE and set at 297°WNW, the angle difference is brutal, due the FE flat circular equator line.

So, or my compass and Timeanddate.Com are wrong, or something else is wrong.